Doppy

Here's my review / trip report of the new Mandarin Oriental - New York, at the Time Warner Center.

Staying of Dec. 5-7, 2003
$675 / night, with special offer for one night free

As a birthday present for my parents, I brought them out to NYC and put them up in the new Mandarin Oriental in the Time Warner Center.

I called the day before and asked for an early check-in of 1PM. I think the standard time is 3PM. The front desk agent said she�d make a note in the reservation, and it would be no problem. I also mentioned that I didn�t want the room rate showing up anywhere, as this was a gift and I didn�t want my parents to know how much it cost. No problem, again.

Friday the 5th was an absolute blizzard. This turned into bad news for my parents, who were flying in. Rather than getting in to LGA at 1PM, they diverted to SWF, then had to take a limo to LGA, then a car to the hotel. In the end, I think they made it to the hotel at about 8PM, rather than 2PM, like it should have been.

I arrived at the hotel at 1PM to check my parents in and settle the bill in advance. As I said, it was a blizzard outside, so I was covered in snow. The hotel entrance is on 60th street, near Broadway. As I approached, I noticed there was no doorman, which I thought odd given the ubiquitous nature of doormen in even the shabbiest of buildings in New York.

The Lobbies

On street level, you enter a medium sized lobby. Dark marble floors, artwork and fresh flowers. On your left is a desk, I�m assuming it�s a bell desk, where there always seem to be about a half dozen employees milling around. Perhaps some of those people should be reassigned to doorman service.

At your 1 o�clock are a set of automatic glass doors leading to the elevator lobby for the residential part of the tower (above the hotel). At your 11 o�clock are automatic glass doors leading to the elevator lobby for the hotel. I followed the narrow carpet runner they had laid down because of the snow to these doors. The carpet ended at the doors, at which point the floor turned into a skating rink if your shoes were wet. It could have just been the type of shoes I was wearing, but I saw several other near-falls over the weekend.

Inside this room was a small seating area to your left, and the hotel elevators straight and to your right. You take them up to the 35th floor � the hotel�s main lobby.

The main lobby houses the concierge, front desk, a restaurant, the lobby lounge, a bar and the spa. Large, very well appointed. If/when they get some pictures of it up, that will be a better description than I can write. There�s a staircase along one wall up to the 36th floor � meeting space and ballroom.

I headed over to the front desk. Check-in was pretty standard, very friendly service. After a bit of a dispute, the front desk agent and I discovered that I had been upgraded to a �Premier Hudson River View Room,� which comes with a rack rate of $815. I also mention again that it�s for my parents (my travel agent had written this into the reservation comments). The agent escorts me up to the room, after a long wait for the three elevators that service the hotel, floors 35 � 54. We were assigned a room on the 51st floor. In the elevator, the agent asked me if I�d like my parents� names added to the reservation, and I said yes. I wrote them on a piece of paper for her. The elevator makes a really loud and annoying buzz! to signal each floor as you ride. It was way over the top and needs to be turned down or something; throughout the weekend, everyone kept looking over at where the noise was coming out with a glare. Especially people who were standing next to it when the elevator was crowded and got an earful.

The common space on each floor was very small, but again appointed with lots of marble, plush carpets and artwork. Our room was one of the 4-6 closest to the elevators. There were 16 rooms on this floor.

The Room

The first thing I noticed about the room was that it was small. There�s a small entryway, then you enter the main part of the room. The entryway is formed by the minibar and closet, which create a short hallway to the door. There�s about 4 feet of space between the bar/closet and one side of the bed, then maybe 3-4 feet of space between the end of the bed and the dresser/TV. On the other side of the bed, you�ve got several feet of space to the floor-to ceiling windows. On that side, there was a desk (with a drawer that wouldn�t stay closed), two chairs and an ottoman. It was pretty cramped over there, two people would be fine, if they were moving around, it would be tight.

The front desk agent showed me around, offered a welcome coffee or tea, and left.

High quality towels, bath robes and linens.

The room colors were dark brown cherry furniture, and various shades of tan/beige/brown. The room featured a large LCD flat panel TV, complete with an entertainment system that featured a combination DVD/CD/MP3 CD player and two free standing speakers. The TV got about 100 channels, which is good. I don't watch much TV when I travel, but I hate it when they only offer 3 channels and there's nothing on. The offered HBO, but I wish hotels would carry all 7 HBO channels. Unfortunately, the hotel was also light on the international channels. Aside from a handful of foreign language channels, the only "international" English channel was CNNi. Admittedly, I can't get any decent international channels on my cable system either.

Next to the combo player was the in-room safe, which had an outlet in it so that you could charge your laptop, while it was locked up. High speed Internet access was available on the TV or via your laptop, for $15/day. You could also hook your laptop up to the TV and entertainment system.

The room featured three phones, but the cordless phone, advertised on the Web site, was not to be found.

The carpet was a nice shade of tan, but unfortunately, being such a light color, there were already several quarter-sized stains on it, despite the newness of the hotel.

On either side of the bed were pocket doors which lead to the bathroom. The bathroom ran the entire length of the room, and was located behind the bed. It had its own thermostat - good idea. Separate shower and tub. The bathtub was next to a window overlooking the West Side and the river. It had wooden Venetian blinds covering it, though the rope to adjust the angle of the slats did nothing. Large Aromatherapy amenities were provided. The shower looked great, with a hand wand, attachable to the wall, and a huge rainwater shower head on the ceiling. There was a mirror mounted on the wall in the shower for shaving. The bathroom also featured a 13" LCD TV mounted on a swivel, so you could watch it in the tub at the sink.

Both the room and bathroom had good lighting, with some of it on dimmer switches.

At one point, while I was looking around, the TV came on of its own accord, which startled me, then it started a slideshow of different landscape pictures. I found this to be a nice feature; later, I found the TV menu offered a few different slideshow options, complete with music options.

Unfortunately, there didn�t seem to be much sound dampening by the room door, as you could hear every conversation anyone was having in the hallway. On top of that, you could not only hear the dings to announce the elevator�s arrival on the floor, but you could also hear the obnoxious buzz! the elevators sounded as they passed each floor.

Misc.

After checking out the room, I went down to the concierge and left an envelope with the room keys and some other information for my parents to pick up when they arrived. At this point, I didn�t know they were going to be delayed; I was expecting them to arrive at the hotel shortly.

I went back to work, where I received a phone call from my parents informing me that they weren�t going to make it to the hotel for some time. I told them I�d go back over to the hotel after work and have a drink in the lobby lounge until they arrived.

About 6PM I went back to the hotel to have a drink. After opening up the door myself and skating through the lobby where the carpet ended, I went to the lobby lounge, which is a small two level area past the hotel�s front desk with floor to ceiling windows overlooking Columbus Circle. There was a velvet rope blocking off about 3/4ths of the lounge. I decided to go to the concierge to get some reading material, as I didn�t know how long I was going to be waiting. The concierge offered me some tourist rag to read; I inquired about a newspaper or magazine. They had neither.

I went outside to the blizzard (after slipping on the floor downstairs and opening the door myself again), which was now sandblasting me with hail, as I walked around for 20 minutes trying to find a newsstand. I finally got a magazine and went back to the hotel. This time, there was actually a doorman. It was a fluke, as I never saw a doorman again the rest of the weekend. Skated on the slippery floor again and back up to the lobby lounge.

This time, the velvet rope had been moved so that only about half of the lounge was blocked off. There were waitresses serving the tables, so I waited for a minute or so trying to get someone�s attention to see if I should just seat myself, or what the deal was. (Later I would find out that what they like to do is ignore you when you arrive and expect someone to seat you, then, when you seat yourself, they run over and scold you. This held true for the entire weekend.)

After they ignored me for a while, I took a seat. A server came over and took my drink order, then disappeared. Several minutes later, my drink hadn�t arrived. A manager came over and told me that I could have my drink, but I�d soon have to leave for a private party. This was exactly what I didn�t want to hear. First they couldn�t provide me with a newspaper, sending me to the hail storm outside, then I waited way too long for a drink, now I was being kicked out for a private party. $815 for this?

I went up to the room to read my magazine. It had that new/chemical smell that electronics, carpets and furniture sometimes have when you first get them. I decided to see if I could open the window and get some air. The windows do open, though they open at the bottom, along floor level. The bottom 2 feet or so of window pushes out far enough for a child up to probably 8 years or so to fall out. I�d be a bit concerned about this if I were a parent.

My parents arrived a couple hours later. We went out for dinner, then back to the lobby lounge for a drink, as the weather outside was terrible and they didn�t want to walk around. This time, the velvet rope was gone. I managed to flag down the lounge manager (the same one who kicked me out earlier), who told me no tables were available. I pointed out the table that had the reserved sign and she opened it up for us, and was very polite about it, but I could tell she didn�t want to do so.

A server came over and we ordered drinks. After way too long of a wait, they came back, and I ordered a cup of coffee. Meanwhile, there was some kind of party going on in the ballroom, with a really loud and awful band playing. The sound was coming down the staircase, and it was pretty annoying. Seems to me like they should have closed the door to the ballroom. It really wrecked the ambiance of the lobby.

A half-hour later, we hadn�t seen the server again. I flagged down the manager, and explained that I ordered a coffee 30 minutes prior, and my father�s drink was empty for the past 20 minutes, and that I didn�t think we needed to pay for the drinks. She agreed, and offered to make the coffee for me, but by that time I wasn�t interested anymore.

We went up to the room, where the hotel had sent up a small cake with �Happy Anniversary� written on it. It came with a card addressed to me and signed by the hotel�s GM. Details: In the reservation, it clearly said that this was a birthday, not anniversary, and my parents� names were in it as well. The cake was excellent, however.

The turndown service was great, complete with small mats on either side of the bed and slippers. They also left a bottle of water, inside of a chilled silver holder, and a crystal glass on either side of the bed.

I left for the night and dropped my father�s shoes outside for the complimentary shoe shine. According to the basket, all we had to do was leave them out by 2AM.

The next morning, my parents awoke to find no newspaper and that my father�s shoes hadn�t been shined. They called downstairs and were told there was supposedly some problem with the delivery, but sent one up right away.

They tried to get the radio function on the TV to work, but somehow ended up in the folio section, and couldn�t exit it. I later found out that when you get to the folio section, you have to switch and use the wireless keyboard � the regular TV remote is rendered useless. This was poor design, if you ask me. I�m pretty tech savvy, and I�m not sure I would have known that I had to switch to the keyboard. And if you didn�t switch to the keyboard, the TV was completely locked up. You couldn�t exit out or turn it off.

We went out for the day into the blizzard that was the city, and then came back for yet another visit to the lobby lounge. I went upstairs to drop off the coats, while my parents went to secure a table. In playing with the TV, I discovered that the folio was displaying the room price, which I had specifically asked to have removed. I called down to the front desk, an agent said he�d take care of it and called back saying it was done. Nothing changed, but I didn�t feel like waiting around in the room any longer so I gave up.

Down to the lobby, this time, they had the velvet rope blocking off the entire lounge. We were told that there was another �private party� going on, despite the fact that the place was empty. I mentioned to the woman that typically hotels have a lounge that�s open to the public. Call me crazy, but that�s a nice feature to have. A few minutes later, the infamous manager came to the bar where we were sitting and told us there was a table available in the lounge. We sat down and ordered some drinks that again took too long. I ordered the tea service and Jasmine tea. The $35 tea service was great, though I would have preferred getting the Jasmine tea that I ordered, rather than whatever I was brought. No one came around to refill our water glasses or check on us until we were ready for the bill. The staff was also doing their favorite thing � letting people seat themselves, and then running after them to scold.

We went upstairs to the room; I got my coat and tried to put the radio on for my parents. There were only a handful of stations available, and they were all playing the same song � static � so we switched over to the TV.

Overall

The biggest thing that struck me was how small the room was. I�m used to New York hotels, but this place was brand new, so I was pretty disappointed. Further, there were only four rooms on the Hudson side of the hotel, but five on the Central Park side. Those rooms must be like sardine cans, if the fire escape floor plan is at all accurate. As a comparison, the last two times my parents stayed in New York they did so at the St. Regis. A Grand Luxe room is at least 50% larger, and $300 less than the room they had at the M-O (rack rate, not what I paid). A Madison suite was about 3-4 times as large, and maybe double the price. Both come with butler service and complimentary coffee in the morning.

The room and hotel were nice and very well appointed, but clearly there were some service issues. The lobby lounge was a disaster, and left me with a sour taste. The whole thing was managed poorly. Other details like having and delivering newspapers, doing the complimentary shoeshine were lacking, or having a doorman were lacking.

The noise issue in the rooms is a big problem.

The floor in the lobby on street level is going to get someone killed.

The folio section on the TV, where you have to switch to the keyboard, is confusing, and the radio stations didn�t work.

There was always a lot of staff milling around. They were coming out of the woodwork continuously � from every elevator, hallway, stairway, crack and crevice. We had no idea who these people were or what their function was, so it was a little strange. They were all wearing fan lapel pins, so that�s how we could identify them as employees.

I really wanted to like the hotel � it had all the makings of being great, but just didn�t deliver. The service can (and must) be improved, but the rooms were too small to be comfortable for my liking, and there�s not much that can be done about that. There are certainly better values out there at other top NYC hotels. Unless prices were to come down significantly, I don�t think I�d return.

The room didn�t have comment cards in it. I always fill out comment cards, regardless of whether my stay was excellent or awful. As such (and because I have too many comments for a small card), I�m e-mailing the hotel�s GM a link to this thread.

d

[This message has been edited by Doppy (edited Dec 08, 2003).]

flamboyant 1

Cheers,

I planned to stay there next July, but I will now rather stay elsewhere. Thanks for your good critical review!

rkt10

Wow, what a great report. It's this type of report that makes Flyertalk so valuable, in my mind.

El Cochinito

Doppy, have you thought about forwarding this report to the hotel's management? There is no way you got your money's worth here.

Thank you for a very informative, detailed report.

HKG_Flyer1

Wow, this sounds really bad. I lived at the Mandarin Oriental in HKG for over 2 years, and the service was outstanding. I also have found their property in London to be first rate. The place you describe sounds like an overpriced mess... certainly much better deal to be had at the Ritz Carlton just down the block.

Doppy

Yeah, as I mentioned at the bottom of the original post, I'm going to e-mail a link to this thread to the hotel's general manager.

I want to read through it again to make sure I mentioned everything I wanted to, and I don't have his address here today anyway, so I'll send it off tomorrow.

I wasn't planning on asking for compensation; I always provide people with feedback. I like to get feedback from clients, and I like to give feedback to businesses I patronize.

d

justforfun

Thanks for report.

It's really disappointing to read about your experience. I was expecting quite a lot more from this hotel. There was an article just recently in the Times about it. Definitely gave a much better impression than yours. The service, or lack thereof, is unforgivable for an establishment of that caliber. It's possible that they are still working out the bugs, but there's no excuse. They better get their act together quickly if they're going to survive the New York market. Again, thanks for a very informative report.

reinsl

Thanks for the great update. I am staying there December 26 - 27 and now I am wondering if I should switch to another hotel. I would expect startup problems but there seem to be many and not addressed effectively or not at all.

UA1kMFR

Wow, so this isn't like their hotels in Hong Kong or Bangkok. I'd thought about staying there in early January. I'll pass.

------------------
UA-GS/1K (M-M)-AA/DL/UA
Hilton Diamond, Starwood Plt.

flamboyant 1

Once more I have to state that this "stay report" may not be the longest or fanciest, but it is to me the most useful and critical observation of a hotel that charges a whole lot too much for this kind of service. Thank you. A very valuable objective report that, if understood correctly by the MO staff could also lead to improvements.

RTauscher

Dear Doppy,

Thank you for having brought to my attention your recent experiences at Mandarin Oriental, New York. I have forwarded your comments on to my colleagues and we are most appreciative of your having taken the time to share your constructive criticisms with us. Rest assured, appropriate action is being taken to address the issues which you brought to our attention as we take our guests� concerns very seriously.

Yours sincerely

Rudy Tauscher
General Manager
Mandarin Oriental, New York

Doppy

Thank you for taking the time to review my comments.

Welcome to FlyerTalk.

d

flamboyant 1

Welcome to Flyertalk Mr. Tauscher!

bigshirt

Gosh, I find it hard to believe that you stayed at the very same hotel that my husband and I did when we were in New York last week to join in the tree lighting festivities at Rockefeller Center. I say that because we were there right around the time that you and your parents were there and we actually enjoyed every moment of our stay. We thought the ambiance was warm and the views were great - it was even hard to tear my husband away from that marvelous rain water shower head that they've got! We found the service friendly and the spa was incredible!

That's really unfortunate that the nice gift you had planned for your parents did not turn out at all as you had hoped...I can understand your displeasure.

Linda and Michael Carr

Doppy

Did you happen to try the lobby lounge? That's where we had the most trouble.

I'd consider giving the M-O another try, but only if it were competitive with hotels like the Four Seasons, St. Regis, Peninsula and Ritz Carlton. We'll see how the room rates flesh out in the next few months.

d