SOP discussion
#166
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FrostByte Falls, Mn
Programs: Holiday Inn Plat NW gold AA gold
Posts: 2,157
Usually at MSP the checkpoint is noisy with TSOs chatting with each other and the passengers. Not so today. Very quiet. Most of the time both of my bags get torn apart for additional searches. Today, just a quick run through the x-ray machine and off I go. No smiles on any of the TSOs.
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management.
Might be wrong, but that was the impression.
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management.
Might be wrong, but that was the impression.
#167
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
It's very rare. Only when the pax has become so disruptive to the screening process and causes a disturbance at the checkpoint. Most often what I have seen, and been a TSO involved in, the pax ask for a STSO, still refuses screening of their property, a LEO is summoned, and the LEO basically says (my words now) screening will continue, TSA will finish their procedures, then you can leave. The LEO stays and watches, but that's about it.
#168
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
Usually at MSP the checkpoint is noisy with TSOs chatting with each other and the passengers. Not so today. Very quiet. Most of the time both of my bags get torn apart for additional searches. Today, just a quick run through the x-ray machine and off I go. No smiles on any of the TSOs.
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management.
Might be wrong, but that was the impression.
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management.
Might be wrong, but that was the impression.
#169
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
Usually at MSP the checkpoint is noisy with TSOs chatting with each other and the passengers. Not so today. Very quiet. Most of the time both of my bags get torn apart for additional searches. Today, just a quick run through the x-ray machine and off I go. No smiles on any of the TSOs.
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management.
Might be wrong, but that was the impression.
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management.
Might be wrong, but that was the impression.
Did anyone else that flew today have a similar experience?
#170
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta Diamond (MM), Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 873
It's very rare. Only when the pax has become so disruptive to the screening process and causes a disturbance at the checkpoint. Most often what I have seen, and been a TSO involved in, the pax ask for a STSO, still refuses screening of their property, a LEO is summoned, and the LEO basically says (my words now) screening will continue, TSA will finish their procedures, then you can leave. The LEO stays and watches, but that's about it.
#171
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
#172
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
As to your second question, I have yet to see anyone refuse the police, and at that point they actually can't refuse. If the police take over and do the search it is no longer a 4th amendment search. At this point I believe the police have probable cause. Just a guess, not a lawyer here, and can only tell you what I have actually seen.
#173
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta Diamond (MM), Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Club
Posts: 873
I'm amazed at how quickly its assumed again that everyone is a criminal.
#174
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
So the LEO would issue a citation for...?
Probable cause based on what? Just because someone *may* be in possession of something that's not allowed to go on a plane in no way automatically incriminates them of something else. I can walk into a courthouse, forget I have a swiss army knife in my pocket when I walk through the WTMD there and if I pull it out and say I'm going to return this to my car, I'm not arrested or searched further because the deputies want to abuse probable cause.
I'm amazed at how quickly its assumed again that everyone is a criminal.
Probable cause based on what? Just because someone *may* be in possession of something that's not allowed to go on a plane in no way automatically incriminates them of something else. I can walk into a courthouse, forget I have a swiss army knife in my pocket when I walk through the WTMD there and if I pull it out and say I'm going to return this to my car, I'm not arrested or searched further because the deputies want to abuse probable cause.
I'm amazed at how quickly its assumed again that everyone is a criminal.
#176
Join Date: May 2008
Location: BOS
Programs: TSA TSO
Posts: 455
You can't. Screening must be completed no matter what. And it's legal as there was a court case pertaining to this very issue, I just can't remember the parties so I'm searching for it right now.
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis.
United States v. Aukai
Plus some background info:
http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis.
United States v. Aukai
Plus some background info:
http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Last edited by LoganTSO; Dec 7, 2009 at 7:51 pm Reason: Yay! Found it!
#177
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: FrostByte Falls, Mn
Programs: Holiday Inn Plat NW gold AA gold
Posts: 2,157
Straight from one end of the horse and TSA (pdf warning).
Last edited by AngryMiller; Dec 7, 2009 at 8:02 pm Reason: add link
#178
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
Disturbing the peace, obstruction of a government employee in their lawful duty, or trespass.
Probable cause based on the fact that you halted the administrative screening. The test would be if a reasonable person, based on his knowledge and experience, feels your action indicate a probable crime.
Probable cause based on what? Just because someone *may* be in possession of something that's not allowed to go on a plane in no way automatically incriminates them of something else. I can walk into a courthouse, forget I have a swiss army knife in my pocket when I walk through the WTMD there and if I pull it out and say I'm going to return this to my car, I'm not arrested or searched further because the deputies want to abuse probable cause.
I'm amazed at how quickly its assumed again that everyone is a criminal.
I'm amazed at how quickly its assumed again that everyone is a criminal.
#179
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
You can't. Screening must be completed no matter what. And it's legal as there was a court case pertaining to this very issue, I just can't remember the parties so I'm searching for it right now.
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis.
United States v. Aukai
Plus some background info:
http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis.
United States v. Aukai
Plus some background info:
http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
#180
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
You can't. Screening must be completed no matter what. And it's legal as there was a court case pertaining to this very issue, I just can't remember the parties so I'm searching for it right now.
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis.
United States v. Aukai
Plus some background info:
http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis.
United States v. Aukai
Plus some background info:
http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Translation: you can't claim that something found after you express the desire to leave in inadmissible due to your consent being revoked.