Today was the day...(The Michael Roberts/ExpressJet Story)
Oct 17, 2010, 10:06 am
#76
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
+1. Will your union support you in this?
+1. True patriot. And someone who has COURAGE, unlike most TSA screeners and the hoards of sheeple who pass through the checkpoints.
Let's see. He is a pilot. He can crash the plane. So what exactly is accomplished by sending him through the strip-search machine? Unless, of course, you are using this machine to try and find drugs or illegal items, in which case the search is no longer administrative, it is criminal.
As for fake pilot, let's see: TSA screeners identify working flight crew all the time for the permitted exemptions from the 4th Amendment Ziploc baggie and other items.
Did you ever consider that you are doing more to frighten the passengers when you strip-search or "enhanced pat down" an airline pilot? Or is that the point: keeping the citizens in fear?
Thank you for standing up for yourself and all of us that view these new regulations as ridiculous. It's outrageous that you have been a pilot for 4 and a half years with no indication that you intend to harm anyone flying in your plane, and you are not being permitted to do your job without subjecting yourself to these invasive security measures. Yet the TSA will allow it's employees to work sometimes up to a year before their background check is even completed. Besides a lawyer I would also contact your local news media and tell them your story. Worse case scenario is that they won't run the story. But you might actually garner some support. Especially from other professionals in your industry. Please let us know what you boss says after you speak to him.
As for fake pilot, let's see: TSA screeners identify working flight crew all the time for the permitted exemptions from the 4th Amendment Ziploc baggie and other items.
Did you ever consider that you are doing more to frighten the passengers when you strip-search or "enhanced pat down" an airline pilot? Or is that the point: keeping the citizens in fear?
Oct 17, 2010, 10:11 am
#77
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
Which is understandable since ALL TSA screeners go thru the "advanced imaging technology" each time they enter the sterile area correct?
Oh and since I can do a search for a "Michael S Roberts" in the FAA Airman data base, at least I know that there is a real one as compared to a fake TSA (pretending to be doing something for the country) screener in front of me.
And by the way at least "Michael S Roberts" does have a type rating in an EMB-145, a lot more demonstrated proficiency in material & skill than you'll ever have to do. Is the initial training for a TSA screener something like 10 days? Even less for a supposed "behavior" detection officer?
I would strongly suggest you be a little bit less ignorant on how even TSA has had screeners entering the sterile area unlawfully and even boarding aircraft. All with the benefit of a TSA uniform. Damaging temperature probes on SAAB 340s of course is a different matter. Did your aviation security inspector get fired for that or just promoted?
https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...od=1&certNum=1
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results
MICHAEL STEPHEN ROBERTS
Address
Street 3794 DOUGLASS AVE
City MEMPHIS State TN
County SHELBY Zip Code 38111-6722
Country USA
Medical
Medical Class: First Medical Date: 11/2009
Certificates
1 of 2
1 2
DOI: 2/8/2009
Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
Rating(s):
COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
Type Ratings
C/EMB-145
Limits
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
EMB-145 SIC PRIVILEGES ONLY.
EMB-145 CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY.
https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...od=1&certNum=1
Oh and since I can do a search for a "Michael S Roberts" in the FAA Airman data base, at least I know that there is a real one as compared to a fake TSA (pretending to be doing something for the country) screener in front of me.
And by the way at least "Michael S Roberts" does have a type rating in an EMB-145, a lot more demonstrated proficiency in material & skill than you'll ever have to do. Is the initial training for a TSA screener something like 10 days? Even less for a supposed "behavior" detection officer?
I would strongly suggest you be a little bit less ignorant on how even TSA has had screeners entering the sterile area unlawfully and even boarding aircraft. All with the benefit of a TSA uniform. Damaging temperature probes on SAAB 340s of course is a different matter. Did your aviation security inspector get fired for that or just promoted?
https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...od=1&certNum=1
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results
MICHAEL STEPHEN ROBERTS
Address
Street 3794 DOUGLASS AVE
City MEMPHIS State TN
County SHELBY Zip Code 38111-6722
Country USA
Medical
Medical Class: First Medical Date: 11/2009
Certificates
1 of 2
1 2
DOI: 2/8/2009
Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT
Rating(s):
COMMERCIAL PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
Type Ratings
C/EMB-145
Limits
ENGLISH PROFICIENT.
EMB-145 SIC PRIVILEGES ONLY.
EMB-145 CIRC. APCH. - VMC ONLY.
https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...od=1&certNum=1
Oct 17, 2010, 10:16 am
#78
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
pass through a WBI device is irrelevant. It doesn't give that "pilot" a free pass to choose not to if he feels like it. Petition to get the rules changed if you don't like them, don't just assume they don't apply and then be shocked when you lose your job because of it.
Last edited by essxjay; Oct 17, 2010 at 6:25 pm Reason: Badgering
Oct 17, 2010, 10:18 am
#79
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
+1. Will your union support you in this?
+1. True patriot. And someone who has COURAGE, unlike most TSA screeners and the hoards of sheeple who pass through the checkpoints.
Let's see. He is a pilot. He can crash the plane. So what exactly is accomplished by sending him through the strip-search machine? Unless, of course, you are using this machine to try and find drugs or illegal items, in which case the search is no longer administrative, it is criminal.
As for fake pilot, let's see: TSA screeners identify working flight crew all the time for the permitted exemptions from the 4th Amendment Ziploc baggie and other items.
Did you ever consider that you are doing more to frighten the passengers when you strip-search or "enhanced pat down" an airline pilot? Or is that the point: keeping the citizens in fear?
+1. True patriot. And someone who has COURAGE, unlike most TSA screeners and the hoards of sheeple who pass through the checkpoints.
Let's see. He is a pilot. He can crash the plane. So what exactly is accomplished by sending him through the strip-search machine? Unless, of course, you are using this machine to try and find drugs or illegal items, in which case the search is no longer administrative, it is criminal.
As for fake pilot, let's see: TSA screeners identify working flight crew all the time for the permitted exemptions from the 4th Amendment Ziploc baggie and other items.
Did you ever consider that you are doing more to frighten the passengers when you strip-search or "enhanced pat down" an airline pilot? Or is that the point: keeping the citizens in fear?
Oct 17, 2010, 10:20 am
#80
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: boca raton, florida
Posts: 621
You missed the point.TSA knows all its officers at the CP and we get notice on new ones. A pilot on the other hand is not known nor are his intentions known. You missed the concept of "position of public trust" well. The other incident that you refer to has nothing to do with CP screening.
And tell me about this "position of public" trust? Does that include your brethren screener at DEN who brought a firearm into the sterile area? Or the TSA screener was a convicted felon for robbery and was knowingly hired at RIC?
Tell us more about your vaulted background checks that enable you to hold this "position of public trust"? You know the ones that are done so well that TSA screeners do not have to go thru the advanced imaging technology booth when entering the sterile area.
Oct 17, 2010, 10:24 am
#81
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
Ah, the one where a TSA screener boarded her flight (after changing out of her uniform in the restroom) and did not go thru screening as a passenger? Or the one where a TSA screener actually boarded an aircraft at JFK?
And tell me about this "position of public" trust? Does that include your brethren screener at DEN who brought a firearm into the sterile area? Or the TSA screener was a convicted felon for robbery and was knowingly hired at RIC?
Tell us more about your vaulted background checks that enable you to hold this "position of public trust"? You know the ones that are done so well that TSA screeners do not have to go thru the advanced imaging technology booth when entering the sterile area.
And tell me about this "position of public" trust? Does that include your brethren screener at DEN who brought a firearm into the sterile area? Or the TSA screener was a convicted felon for robbery and was knowingly hired at RIC?
Tell us more about your vaulted background checks that enable you to hold this "position of public trust"? You know the ones that are done so well that TSA screeners do not have to go thru the advanced imaging technology booth when entering the sterile area.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Oct 23, 2010 at 2:34 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
Oct 17, 2010, 10:27 am
#82
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Miami, Nice
Programs: Marriott Titanium, AA Concierge Key, Delta, United, Emorates, and others
Posts: 4,694
I applaud anybody who can find a plausible way to defend TSA. It is a tough job, thankless too, and ultimately as logical as suggesting one can solve the problem of US national debt by cutting taxes. As i think of that maybe the solution is to eliminate TSA and start from scratch. That must work better than suggesting that pilots are unknown quantities compared with TSA staffers.
Oct 17, 2010, 10:31 am
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
You missed the point.TSA knows all its officers at the CP and we get notice on new ones. A pilot on the other hand is not known nor are his intentions known. You missed the concept of "position of public trust" well. The other incident that you refer to has nothing to do with CP screening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990
Oct 17, 2010, 11:06 am
#84
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
You missed the point.TSA knows all its officers at the CP and we get notice on new ones. A pilot on the other hand is not known nor are his intentions known. You missed the concept of "position of public trust" well. The other incident that you refer to has nothing to do with CP screening.
If pilot has bad intentions, theres nothing you or any FAM can do to stop him once he's behind the cockpit door.
Whether you like it or not, the pilot is in a position of public trust.
I smell someone trying to justify a dragnet.
Oct 17, 2010, 11:19 am
#85
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Downers Grove, IL
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, AA Advantage
Posts: 5,983
Mr. Roberts,
THANK YOU for standing up to the goons at the TSA. It is time that someone did it.
Oh I can tell you that I will at the very least make sure that people remember since we need to involve the media here and I plan on posting this link on my Facebook page since A LOT of people I know hate the TSA.
THANK YOU for standing up to the goons at the TSA. It is time that someone did it.
So at the end of the day what have you accomplished?
You got your "good job" and applause here and yet you might have managed to destroy a career. At the end of the month no one will remember what you did. No one will be buying your dinner or making any bill payments on your behalf. You have become a paper hero and that is sad.
I understand your point. But was it worth it? That is how the judgement is passed at the end of the day.
No one is exempt from being picked for the AIT machine. Since your career consists of an exploitable avenue from a security standpoint, you should know that.
You got your "good job" and applause here and yet you might have managed to destroy a career. At the end of the month no one will remember what you did. No one will be buying your dinner or making any bill payments on your behalf. You have become a paper hero and that is sad.
I understand your point. But was it worth it? That is how the judgement is passed at the end of the day.
No one is exempt from being picked for the AIT machine. Since your career consists of an exploitable avenue from a security standpoint, you should know that.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Oct 23, 2010 at 2:34 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
Oct 17, 2010, 1:36 pm
#86
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Western PA
Programs: ExPlAAt; United 1K
Posts: 480
I call bull@#$%. Hang around DCA on a Thursday when Congress is going out of session for the weekend. I'm consistently on flights to my home airport and LAX with members of the PA and CA delegations; they get VIP treatment. Same for high level appointees in the Administration. These guys and gals are not getting the same treatment that we are. If they were, airport security would be a vastly different enterprise. But because most members of Congress don't get felt up or nude-o-scoped they have no idea why the rest of us find the process disgusting.
http://gawker.com/5420989/the-gawker...-travel-season
http://fly.truth.travel/2010/04/late...g-debacle.html
http://gawker.com/5420989/the-gawker...-travel-season
http://fly.truth.travel/2010/04/late...g-debacle.html
Oct 17, 2010, 2:28 pm
#87
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: KSUX
Posts: 906
Michael thank you for standing up against the TSA's bull. I hope more pilots and flight crews follow. What I don't get and I've discussed this with a friend who flies long haul for Delta before is why bother screening the pilots? If you wanted to crash the plane or hijack it you're already you know, at the controls in the cockpit. If a pilot wanted to turn their plane into a missile there's not a damned thing the smurf brigade can do to stop it.
If your airline flew to the places I regularly fly to I'd book my next flight on them and let them know why I am.
If your airline flew to the places I regularly fly to I'd book my next flight on them and let them know why I am.
Oct 17, 2010, 2:43 pm
#88
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,535
You missed the point.TSA knows all its officers at the CP and we get notice on new ones. A pilot on the other hand is not known nor are his intentions known. You missed the concept of "position of public trust" well. The other incident that you refer to has nothing to do with CP screening.
hmmm its odd you mention "position of public trust" as thats the very last place i would use that line when comes to anything remotely close to TSA, because I certainly dont trust TSA as far as i can put a round down range because of repeated failures and lies. Mainly its because of the utter lack of professionalism and consistency because if that was the case the number of clerks that got fired would be 100x higher then it is currently. That comes from the number of documented cases(abuse, theft, CBC, etc), which means there's many magnitude higher that havent been reported or documented.
Case point number 1: Alvin Crabtree. 2: Rolando Negrin
Consider Eygptair 990, so please tell me how TSA could stop this..... Its easy you all never would be a able to stop a determined individual who has there hands on the control and can take down that aircraft faster then thought from your head reaches you pants in a code brown. TSA has brained washed alot of people to think there on the front lines of the "wah or terrah" when in reality TSA is so far removed its not even funny, and its head is no where to be found because if rational thinking was in place we wouldnt be a at a level orange alert for 3+ years (Think of boy crying wolf) when the reality is half of "no credible threat" scares should mean we never should have left level green.
Oct 17, 2010, 2:46 pm
#89
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Southern California
Posts: 391
[QUOTE=
[url]http://gawker.com/5420989/the-gawker-guide-to-getting-past-airport-security-this-holiday-travel-season[/url]
Is the picture of TSOs real...I mean are they really TSOs...the unhappy, unsmiling faces....could it be that they are so disgusted with the acts they have to perform on the job........or are they officially not allowed to smile and have have a good disposition????
[url]http://gawker.com/5420989/the-gawker-guide-to-getting-past-airport-security-this-holiday-travel-season[/url]
Is the picture of TSOs real...I mean are they really TSOs...the unhappy, unsmiling faces....could it be that they are so disgusted with the acts they have to perform on the job........or are they officially not allowed to smile and have have a good disposition????
Oct 17, 2010, 3:38 pm
#90
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,604
I applaud anybody who can find a plausible way to defend TSA. It is a tough job, thankless too, and ultimately as logical as suggesting one can solve the problem of US national debt by cutting taxes. As i think of that maybe the solution is to eliminate TSA and start from scratch. That must work better than suggesting that pilots are unknown quantities compared with TSA staffers.