Advice needed: 20 passengers MX misconnect, DL refused to provide hotels
Mar 20, 2017, 10:02 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 152
Advice needed: 20 passengers MX misconnect, DL refused to provide hotels
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Resolved (post 12)
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Hi all. I'm hoping I can get your advice based on your experience with DL and IRROPS handling.
I was traveling with ~20 people on ORD-ATL-BOG on Friday (two groups / PNRs)
Our ORD-ATL flight was delayed 6+ hours due to a maintenance issue, meaning we'd miss our ATL-BOG flight. So, we were re-routed to LGA and then split onto AV245 (1am) and AV21 (7am) out of JFK.
Where things get bad: when we got to LGA, no one at ORD had contacted LGA to let them know we were coming and would need hotels for the ~16 of us on the 7am AV21. Also, somehow both PNRs had been annotated that all of us had missed an earlier ORD-ATL flight and were reaccommodated on the one that went MX, so the red coat and OSM at LGA would not provide hotels. I’m not sure if there being multiple agents working on the records in ORD resulted in this missed flight notation (on both PNRs!), but it is completely false; we were originally booked on the flight that went MX and did not miss a flight.
While the red coat and OSM seemed like they believed us, they could not provide hotels given the risk they’d take in breaking policy, and they were unable to reach the two agents (not red coats) who rebooked us in ORD. As such, we had to book and pay for our own hotel rooms (violation of the Contract of Carriage, rule 240, section C, subsection a), though we were at least given transportation vouchers to cover most of the transit to/from the hotel.
And the icing on the cake, AV21 was subsequently delayed from 7am until 2pm… just a great travel situation
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Questions:
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Resolved (post 12)
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Hi all. I'm hoping I can get your advice based on your experience with DL and IRROPS handling.
I was traveling with ~20 people on ORD-ATL-BOG on Friday (two groups / PNRs)
Our ORD-ATL flight was delayed 6+ hours due to a maintenance issue, meaning we'd miss our ATL-BOG flight. So, we were re-routed to LGA and then split onto AV245 (1am) and AV21 (7am) out of JFK.
Where things get bad: when we got to LGA, no one at ORD had contacted LGA to let them know we were coming and would need hotels for the ~16 of us on the 7am AV21. Also, somehow both PNRs had been annotated that all of us had missed an earlier ORD-ATL flight and were reaccommodated on the one that went MX, so the red coat and OSM at LGA would not provide hotels. I’m not sure if there being multiple agents working on the records in ORD resulted in this missed flight notation (on both PNRs!), but it is completely false; we were originally booked on the flight that went MX and did not miss a flight.
While the red coat and OSM seemed like they believed us, they could not provide hotels given the risk they’d take in breaking policy, and they were unable to reach the two agents (not red coats) who rebooked us in ORD. As such, we had to book and pay for our own hotel rooms (violation of the Contract of Carriage, rule 240, section C, subsection a), though we were at least given transportation vouchers to cover most of the transit to/from the hotel.
And the icing on the cake, AV21 was subsequently delayed from 7am until 2pm… just a great travel situation
. Questions:
- How did this missed flight notation happen / how do we get it corrected so that we can get reimbursed and compensated for this ordeal? Would the Groups department that handled our booking be able to show that we were originally booked on the MX flight? Or is there some other record of it?
- Any recommendations for pursuing the reimbursement and compensation (i.e., who to contact?), and what can we expect? I would like full cash reimbursement for the hotels and transportation not covered by vouchers (we didn’t receive enough), plus a sizable voucher/miles for all passengers.
- If DL refuses to cooperate, what route can we take with the DOT, or otherwise legally?
Last edited by nautikal; Apr 18, 2017 at 9:44 pm
Mar 20, 2017, 10:43 am
#2
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
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Posts: 6,365
Could you clarify the "2 PNR" comment? I will assume you mean some of the group were on one PNR and the other were on another PNR.
If I am wrong, and you mean ORD-ATL and ATL-BOG were separate tickets, then forget it. They owe you nothing, and even did a favor with the reroute.
Now, back to the original assumption that you meant there were two subgroups, but each booked through to BOG.
1) Who knows, and who cares.
2) They owe you expense as you state. They will probably also toss you a few SMs for the trouble (but do not owe you that).
C) I would stick with working with DL for a couple pings. DL is not bad about this type stuff. Let it play out and get back with the result.
If I am wrong, and you mean ORD-ATL and ATL-BOG were separate tickets, then forget it. They owe you nothing, and even did a favor with the reroute.
Now, back to the original assumption that you meant there were two subgroups, but each booked through to BOG.
1) Who knows, and who cares.
2) They owe you expense as you state. They will probably also toss you a few SMs for the trouble (but do not owe you that).
C) I would stick with working with DL for a couple pings. DL is not bad about this type stuff. Let it play out and get back with the result.
Mar 20, 2017, 10:47 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 152
Thanks. I clarified the two PNR comment. It is two reservations, both ORD-ATL-BOG.
I agree with ultimately not caring about how/why the PNRs were annotated that we missed a flight, but I think it needs to be corrected before we can receive reimbursement and compensation, because DL's position was that our "missing" the original flight absolves them of any liability
I agree with ultimately not caring about how/why the PNRs were annotated that we missed a flight, but I think it needs to be corrected before we can receive reimbursement and compensation, because DL's position was that our "missing" the original flight absolves them of any liability
Mar 20, 2017, 11:24 am
#4
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It shouldn't matter even if there was a notation... the agents in LGA could've looked at the history and see how the original ticket was issued and the flights you were on, along with subsequent rerouting.
You should also have your original tickets/PNRs as purchased, and receipts in your DL account online to show the flights you were on before the MX.
Anyway, yes you should've been provided overnight hotel accommodation and you should get reimbursed for that.
You should also have your original tickets/PNRs as purchased, and receipts in your DL account online to show the flights you were on before the MX.
Anyway, yes you should've been provided overnight hotel accommodation and you should get reimbursed for that.
Mar 20, 2017, 11:30 am
#5
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+1
Submit your hotel expenses for reimbursement. A cursory examination of the history should confirm you were originally booked onto the flight that went MX, and not reaccommodated onto it. From there, you shouldn't encounter any pushback, as in that situation DL is clearly obligated to provide accommodations.
Submit your hotel expenses for reimbursement. A cursory examination of the history should confirm you were originally booked onto the flight that went MX, and not reaccommodated onto it. From there, you shouldn't encounter any pushback, as in that situation DL is clearly obligated to provide accommodations.
Mar 20, 2017, 1:34 pm
#6
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1) PNRs have a History section in which every change made is recorded (including usually both before and after situations). It's fairly difficult to decode so lower ability agents may not understand it and, thus, ignore it. Your original flights are in there.
Mar 20, 2017, 2:58 pm
#7
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OP - Don't get sucked into airline jargon. It is irrelevant.
Each passenger travels on a single ticket and each ticket has its own contract and each contract provides for the circumstances under which DL will provide a voucher for the hotel or a travel credit of up to $100 per passenger (not sure where the reimbursement stuff comes from, that is old stuff from the past and from people who did not read the COC).
PNR's are an administrative fiction and the LGA agents and Red Coats could, of course, have determined your original routing, but simply did not bother or bothered, but did not want to argue because they did not have access to hotels.
At this point, each passenger will need to submit the relevant information, noting the reason for the delay, the fact that no voucher was issued and requesting a reimbursement of the hotel expense (but understanding that under the contract that the passenger agreed to, there is no reimbursement, only a $100 travel credit).
These are best handled through the web form as it gets the materials into the database faster, but you are free to submit in other manners as well.
Each passenger travels on a single ticket and each ticket has its own contract and each contract provides for the circumstances under which DL will provide a voucher for the hotel or a travel credit of up to $100 per passenger (not sure where the reimbursement stuff comes from, that is old stuff from the past and from people who did not read the COC).
PNR's are an administrative fiction and the LGA agents and Red Coats could, of course, have determined your original routing, but simply did not bother or bothered, but did not want to argue because they did not have access to hotels.
At this point, each passenger will need to submit the relevant information, noting the reason for the delay, the fact that no voucher was issued and requesting a reimbursement of the hotel expense (but understanding that under the contract that the passenger agreed to, there is no reimbursement, only a $100 travel credit).
These are best handled through the web form as it gets the materials into the database faster, but you are free to submit in other manners as well.
Mar 20, 2017, 3:38 pm
#8
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OP - Don't get sucked into airline jargon. It is irrelevant.
Each passenger travels on a single ticket and each ticket has its own contract and each contract provides for the circumstances under which DL will provide a voucher for the hotel or a travel credit of up to $100 per passenger (not sure where the reimbursement stuff comes from, that is old stuff from the past and from people who did not read the COC).
PNR's are an administrative fiction and the LGA agents and Red Coats could, of course, have determined your original routing, but simply did not bother or bothered, but did not want to argue because they did not have access to hotels.
At this point, each passenger will need to submit the relevant information, noting the reason for the delay, the fact that no voucher was issued and requesting a reimbursement of the hotel expense (but understanding that under the contract that the passenger agreed to, there is no reimbursement, only a $100 travel credit).
These are best handled through the web form as it gets the materials into the database faster, but you are free to submit in other manners as well.
Each passenger travels on a single ticket and each ticket has its own contract and each contract provides for the circumstances under which DL will provide a voucher for the hotel or a travel credit of up to $100 per passenger (not sure where the reimbursement stuff comes from, that is old stuff from the past and from people who did not read the COC).
PNR's are an administrative fiction and the LGA agents and Red Coats could, of course, have determined your original routing, but simply did not bother or bothered, but did not want to argue because they did not have access to hotels.
At this point, each passenger will need to submit the relevant information, noting the reason for the delay, the fact that no voucher was issued and requesting a reimbursement of the hotel expense (but understanding that under the contract that the passenger agreed to, there is no reimbursement, only a $100 travel credit).
These are best handled through the web form as it gets the materials into the database faster, but you are free to submit in other manners as well.
This is not a matter of hotels being unavailable. This is a matter of DL failing to meet its obligation to provide a hotel. When one party fails to honor its contractual obligations, it's perfectly reasonable for the other party to seek a remedy. DL was supposed to provide a hotel and didn't, so OP secured his own hotel. Seeking reimbursement for OP's out-of-pocket expenses to recover from DL's breach of the COC is the correct next step, though it would be wise not to use such strong language in the initial request. DL has reimbursed reasonable out-of-pocket expenses in these scenarios as a matter of routine for years.
Mar 20, 2017, 4:12 pm
#9
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,881
Perhaps it is you that didn't read the COC. Delta is obligated to provide a hotel. The voucher is to be provided if accommodations are not available. The voucher is equal in value to the contracted hotel rate, not $100.
This is not a matter of hotels being unavailable. This is a matter of DL failing to meet its obligation to provide a hotel. When one party fails to honor its contractual obligations, it's perfectly reasonable for the other party to seek a remedy. DL was supposed to provide a hotel and didn't, so OP secured his own hotel. Seeking reimbursement for OP's out-of-pocket expenses to recover from DL's breach of the COC is the correct next step, though it would be wise not to use such strong language in the initial request. DL has reimbursed reasonable out-of-pocket expenses in these scenarios as a matter of routine for years.
This is not a matter of hotels being unavailable. This is a matter of DL failing to meet its obligation to provide a hotel. When one party fails to honor its contractual obligations, it's perfectly reasonable for the other party to seek a remedy. DL was supposed to provide a hotel and didn't, so OP secured his own hotel. Seeking reimbursement for OP's out-of-pocket expenses to recover from DL's breach of the COC is the correct next step, though it would be wise not to use such strong language in the initial request. DL has reimbursed reasonable out-of-pocket expenses in these scenarios as a matter of routine for years.
Mar 20, 2017, 10:40 pm
#10
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The $100 hotel limit is in the CoC. However DL has for a matter of practice over a few years paid out the actual cost of hotel as long as not excessive. Ie If you booked a suite for $500 they're not going to pay $500. However if you booked a normal room that happens to be $175 they'll pay it. They do this even for those without status.
Same with transportation. They'll happily pay for a taxi, but don't expect them to pay for a privately drive stretch limo.
If this happens again insist that the red coat looks at the PNR history. This will prove that the comment was incorrect.
DL is under no obligation to give voucher/miles. However they will most likely give something. However it will not be sizable. Tame down your expectations here.
Same with transportation. They'll happily pay for a taxi, but don't expect them to pay for a privately drive stretch limo.
If this happens again insist that the red coat looks at the PNR history. This will prove that the comment was incorrect.
DL is under no obligation to give voucher/miles. However they will most likely give something. However it will not be sizable. Tame down your expectations here.
Mar 21, 2017, 6:23 am
#11
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Contact DL and simply say that XXX happened on YYY date and you and your travel companions are claiming $$$ to cover the hotel etc
Keep the explanation simple.
At this stage don't mention the COC etc as it will simply put DLs back up and they may start to resist yout claim.
Others aren't saying ignore the COC but referencing them isn't going to be helpful as you could find they stick to them and the $100 credit in the COC rather than the actual costs of the rooms.
Keep the explanation simple.
At this stage don't mention the COC etc as it will simply put DLs back up and they may start to resist yout claim.
Others aren't saying ignore the COC but referencing them isn't going to be helpful as you could find they stick to them and the $100 credit in the COC rather than the actual costs of the rooms.
Apr 18, 2017, 9:43 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 152
Thanks all for the advice. I finally got it resolved yesterday (it took a while as I needed to get all our ticket numbers from the travel agent, since all our PNRs got split in the rebooking and we could not be looked up using the original PNRs, apparently).
The phone agent reimbursed for all the hotels and gave $150 gift cards for everyone, few questions asked. Never figured out why our records had this missed flight notation, but whatever at this point!
Thanks again.
The phone agent reimbursed for all the hotels and gave $150 gift cards for everyone, few questions asked. Never figured out why our records had this missed flight notation, but whatever at this point!
Thanks again.
Apr 19, 2017, 9:46 am
#13
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Thanks all for the advice. I finally got it resolved yesterday (it took a while as I needed to get all our ticket numbers from the travel agent, since all our PNRs got split in the rebooking and we could not be looked up using the original PNRs, apparently).
The phone agent reimbursed for all the hotels and gave $150 gift cards for everyone, few questions asked. Never figured out why our records had this missed flight notation, but whatever at this point!
Thanks again.
The phone agent reimbursed for all the hotels and gave $150 gift cards for everyone, few questions asked. Never figured out why our records had this missed flight notation, but whatever at this point!
Thanks again.
My experience has been the DL front line folks, when empowered to do so, do the right thing. ^
Apr 19, 2017, 11:51 am
#14
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I thought red coat agents were empowered to do pretty much anything to make the customer's journey better and more positive. It doesn't make sense that the LGA red coat agents said no and referred to policy. I thought that was the point of the red coat agents in the first place, to go above and beyond to help DL customers in situations like this?
Apr 19, 2017, 12:33 pm
#15
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I thought red coat agents were empowered to do pretty much anything to make the customer's journey better and more positive. It doesn't make sense that the LGA red coat agents said no and referred to policy. I thought that was the point of the red coat agents in the first place, to go above and beyond to help DL customers in situations like this?