SAN agent blows business deal.
Jul 28, 2014, 9:05 am
#1
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SAN agent (nearly) blows business deal.
Hey all, looking for some advice from a co-worker.
We were all heading to São Paulo yesterday (Sunday eve), two from JFK and one from SAN, to rendevouz for some business meetings. My San Diego associate is 2+ million miler and chairmans preferred on United. Due to a change in company booking policy, this was his first trip on Delta.
When he got to the counter to check in for his flight to GRU via ATL, the agent refused to let him board because she said he had no Visa. He explained that when flying to Brazil, he uses his Argentine passport as no visa is required (he is also a naturalized US citizen with US passport). The agent, Cindy, insisted that he must have a visa even after he explained several times that he makes this trip bi-monthly. She supposedly "called someone at corporate" who backed her up. He was refused boarding. He walked over to the United counter and asked them "how is it that I have been doing this for years with you?". They said Delta was wrong, and even printed a screen shot of the requirements indicating that an Argentine passport needs no visa.
By the time he returned to the DL counter, the flight was closed. He showed Cindy the papers, she admitted her mistake, apologized and put him back on the same flights the next day (tonight/Monday) in a middle seat no less.
He is of course, livid. He was on time, did everything right and tried to calmly explain that this person didn't know what she was talking about. He missed a very important meeting this AM in São Paulo and jeopardized our entire deal. When he demanded to speak to a supervisor, she (Cindy) informed him she WAS the highest DL authority at SAN. She offered him a $100 voucher of some kind for the mistake.
Other than the typical complaint letter, what would you do? I told him I would demand they put him in business class, except he has no status yet at DL (and probably never will after this debacle. He's pretty sour on his first experience).
Thoughts?
We were all heading to São Paulo yesterday (Sunday eve), two from JFK and one from SAN, to rendevouz for some business meetings. My San Diego associate is 2+ million miler and chairmans preferred on United. Due to a change in company booking policy, this was his first trip on Delta.
When he got to the counter to check in for his flight to GRU via ATL, the agent refused to let him board because she said he had no Visa. He explained that when flying to Brazil, he uses his Argentine passport as no visa is required (he is also a naturalized US citizen with US passport). The agent, Cindy, insisted that he must have a visa even after he explained several times that he makes this trip bi-monthly. She supposedly "called someone at corporate" who backed her up. He was refused boarding. He walked over to the United counter and asked them "how is it that I have been doing this for years with you?". They said Delta was wrong, and even printed a screen shot of the requirements indicating that an Argentine passport needs no visa.
By the time he returned to the DL counter, the flight was closed. He showed Cindy the papers, she admitted her mistake, apologized and put him back on the same flights the next day (tonight/Monday) in a middle seat no less.
He is of course, livid. He was on time, did everything right and tried to calmly explain that this person didn't know what she was talking about. He missed a very important meeting this AM in São Paulo and jeopardized our entire deal. When he demanded to speak to a supervisor, she (Cindy) informed him she WAS the highest DL authority at SAN. She offered him a $100 voucher of some kind for the mistake.
Other than the typical complaint letter, what would you do? I told him I would demand they put him in business class, except he has no status yet at DL (and probably never will after this debacle. He's pretty sour on his first experience).
Thoughts?
Last edited by Pointfreak!; Aug 2, 2014 at 11:41 am
Jul 28, 2014, 9:28 am
#2
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Hey all, looking for some advice from a co-worker.
We were all heading to São Paulo yesterday (Sunday eve), two from JFK and one from SAN, to rendevouz for some business meetings. My San Diego associate is 2+ million miler and chairmans preferred on United. Due to a change in company booking policy, this was his first trip on Delta.
When he got to the counter to check in for his flight to GRU via ATL, the agent refused to let him board because she said he had no Visa. He explained that when flying to Brazil, he uses his Argentine passport as no visa is required (he is also a naturalized US citizen with US passport). The agent, Cindy, insisted that he must have a visa even after he explained several times that he makes this trip bi-monthly. She supposedly "called someone at corporate" who backed her up. He was refused boarding. He walked over to the United counter and asked them "how is it that I have been doing this for years with you?". They said Delta was wrong, and even printed a screen shot of the requirements indicating that an Argentine passport needs no visa.
By the time he returned to the DL counter, the flight was closed. He showed Cindy the papers, she admitted her mistake, apologized and put him back on the same flights the next day (tonight/Monday) in a middle seat no less.
He is of course, livid. He was on time, did everything right and tried to calmly explain that this person didn't know what she was talking about. He missed a very important meeting this AM in São Paulo and jeopardized our entire deal. When he demanded to speak to a supervisor, she (Cindy) informed him she WAS the highest DL authority at SAN. She offered him a $100 voucher of some kind for the mistake.
Other than the typical complaint letter, what would you do? I told him I would demand they put him in business class, except he has no status yet at DL (and probably never will after this debacle. He's pretty sour on his first experience).
Thoughts?
We were all heading to São Paulo yesterday (Sunday eve), two from JFK and one from SAN, to rendevouz for some business meetings. My San Diego associate is 2+ million miler and chairmans preferred on United. Due to a change in company booking policy, this was his first trip on Delta.
When he got to the counter to check in for his flight to GRU via ATL, the agent refused to let him board because she said he had no Visa. He explained that when flying to Brazil, he uses his Argentine passport as no visa is required (he is also a naturalized US citizen with US passport). The agent, Cindy, insisted that he must have a visa even after he explained several times that he makes this trip bi-monthly. She supposedly "called someone at corporate" who backed her up. He was refused boarding. He walked over to the United counter and asked them "how is it that I have been doing this for years with you?". They said Delta was wrong, and even printed a screen shot of the requirements indicating that an Argentine passport needs no visa.
By the time he returned to the DL counter, the flight was closed. He showed Cindy the papers, she admitted her mistake, apologized and put him back on the same flights the next day (tonight/Monday) in a middle seat no less.
He is of course, livid. He was on time, did everything right and tried to calmly explain that this person didn't know what she was talking about. He missed a very important meeting this AM in São Paulo and jeopardized our entire deal. When he demanded to speak to a supervisor, she (Cindy) informed him she WAS the highest DL authority at SAN. She offered him a $100 voucher of some kind for the mistake.
Other than the typical complaint letter, what would you do? I told him I would demand they put him in business class, except he has no status yet at DL (and probably never will after this debacle. He's pretty sour on his first experience).
Thoughts?
Jul 28, 2014, 9:30 am
#3
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Thoughts? Don't give Delta anymore money. Send the executive offices a concise explanation of the incident along with the receipts for paid premium cabin travel on other airlines. That will get someone's attention.
Of course, as you point out, it's unlikely that your colleague would give Delta any future business anyway.
Compensation for the missed business deal? Consequential damages like those are the type that airlines have never covered, so what's the point, if he's never going to fly DL again?
If it was a really important business deal, then your colleague should have found a way to DFW or MIA and flown AA to GRU to salvage the deal.
Of course, as you point out, it's unlikely that your colleague would give Delta any future business anyway.
Compensation for the missed business deal? Consequential damages like those are the type that airlines have never covered, so what's the point, if he's never going to fly DL again?
If it was a really important business deal, then your colleague should have found a way to DFW or MIA and flown AA to GRU to salvage the deal.
Jul 28, 2014, 9:39 am
#4
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Couldn't he have asked for the taxi fare to LAX and a seat on the Korean non-stop flight to Sao Paulo? That presumably would have given him a chance to make the meeting on time. If he still wants to leave from SAN I doubt they'd give him a BE seat, but it never hurts to ask. I would take the $100 and then write the complaint letter asking for whatever additional compensation he deems reasonable. It won't make up for the inconvenience but Delta is unlikely to give much more than the voucher since he was arguably cutting it too close to arrive the same morning of the meeting and mistakes like have, unfortunately, become all too common.
Compensation for the potential lost business was never mentioned or even considered. The point is that $100 seems like pretty crappy compensation for such a large screw-up.
Jul 28, 2014, 9:42 am
#5
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He should try to check whether his flight was oversold. Could it be that the mistake was an attempt to avoid paying IDB/VDB? There have suspicions that some airlines are doing this and it seems that the DOT would be interested if this played a role in what happened.
Note that I'm not saying that this was the case, only raising it as a possibility to be checked by the OP.
Unfortunately airline agents are often clueless about visa rules and do not know how to use TIMATIC correctly. Alternatively, they can be so sure that what they believe about visa requirements is correct that they refuse to listen or to check an authoritative source. (I had this problem with four DL agents in the SkyPriority check in area, a supervisor and a redcoat at NRT regarding Chinese TWOV rules. I was right but they almost didn't let me board.)
Note that I'm not saying that this was the case, only raising it as a possibility to be checked by the OP.
Unfortunately airline agents are often clueless about visa rules and do not know how to use TIMATIC correctly. Alternatively, they can be so sure that what they believe about visa requirements is correct that they refuse to listen or to check an authoritative source. (I had this problem with four DL agents in the SkyPriority check in area, a supervisor and a redcoat at NRT regarding Chinese TWOV rules. I was right but they almost didn't let me board.)
Jul 28, 2014, 10:46 am
#7
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Hey all, looking for some advice from a co-worker.
We were all heading to São Paulo yesterday (Sunday eve), two from JFK and one from SAN, to rendevouz for some business meetings. My San Diego associate is 2+ million miler and chairmans preferred on United. Due to a change in company booking policy, this was his first trip on Delta.
When he got to the counter to check in for his flight to GRU via ATL, the agent refused to let him board because she said he had no Visa. He explained that when flying to Brazil, he uses his Argentine passport as no visa is required (he is also a naturalized US citizen with US passport). The agent, Cindy, insisted that he must have a visa even after he explained several times that he makes this trip bi-monthly. She supposedly "called someone at corporate" who backed her up. He was refused boarding. He walked over to the United counter and asked them "how is it that I have been doing this for years with you?". They said Delta was wrong, and even printed a screen shot of the requirements indicating that an Argentine passport needs no visa.
By the time he returned to the DL counter, the flight was closed. He showed Cindy the papers, she admitted her mistake, apologized and put him back on the same flights the next day (tonight/Monday) in a middle seat no less.
He is of course, livid. He was on time, did everything right and tried to calmly explain that this person didn't know what she was talking about. He missed a very important meeting this AM in São Paulo and jeopardized our entire deal. When he demanded to speak to a supervisor, she (Cindy) informed him she WAS the highest DL authority at SAN. She offered him a $100 voucher of some kind for the mistake.
Other than the typical complaint letter, what would you do? I told him I would demand they put him in business class, except he has no status yet at DL (and probably never will after this debacle. He's pretty sour on his first experience).
Thoughts?
We were all heading to São Paulo yesterday (Sunday eve), two from JFK and one from SAN, to rendevouz for some business meetings. My San Diego associate is 2+ million miler and chairmans preferred on United. Due to a change in company booking policy, this was his first trip on Delta.
When he got to the counter to check in for his flight to GRU via ATL, the agent refused to let him board because she said he had no Visa. He explained that when flying to Brazil, he uses his Argentine passport as no visa is required (he is also a naturalized US citizen with US passport). The agent, Cindy, insisted that he must have a visa even after he explained several times that he makes this trip bi-monthly. She supposedly "called someone at corporate" who backed her up. He was refused boarding. He walked over to the United counter and asked them "how is it that I have been doing this for years with you?". They said Delta was wrong, and even printed a screen shot of the requirements indicating that an Argentine passport needs no visa.
By the time he returned to the DL counter, the flight was closed. He showed Cindy the papers, she admitted her mistake, apologized and put him back on the same flights the next day (tonight/Monday) in a middle seat no less.
He is of course, livid. He was on time, did everything right and tried to calmly explain that this person didn't know what she was talking about. He missed a very important meeting this AM in São Paulo and jeopardized our entire deal. When he demanded to speak to a supervisor, she (Cindy) informed him she WAS the highest DL authority at SAN. She offered him a $100 voucher of some kind for the mistake.
Other than the typical complaint letter, what would you do? I told him I would demand they put him in business class, except he has no status yet at DL (and probably never will after this debacle. He's pretty sour on his first experience).
Thoughts?
I don't know the legality of checking in with one PP and then trying to use another for entry... That seems shady and wouldn't match the pax manifest PP info that's transmitted to Brazil...
Pretty Impressive to have Chairman's Preferred on United, since that's a USAir status...
Jul 28, 2014, 11:19 am
#8
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One question: Which passport did he present when he checked in originally? If he presented the Argentinean PP, he should have been fine. If he used the US one, I can see where the confusion sets in. I'm not excusing it, but all parties could have handled it better if that's the case.
I don't know the legality of checking in with one PP and then trying to use another for entry... That seems shady and wouldn't match the pax manifest PP info that's transmitted to Brazil...
I don't know the legality of checking in with one PP and then trying to use another for entry... That seems shady and wouldn't match the pax manifest PP info that's transmitted to Brazil...
And Brazilians can be real sticklers on this stuff.
Jul 28, 2014, 11:24 am
#9
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One question: Which passport did he present when he checked in originally? If he presented the Argentinean PP, he should have been fine. If he used the US one, I can see where the confusion sets in. I'm not excusing it, but all parties could have handled it better if that's the case.
I don't know the legality of checking in with one PP and then trying to use another for entry... That seems shady and wouldn't match the pax manifest PP info that's transmitted to Brazil...
Pretty Impressive to have Chairman's Preferred on United, since that's a USAir status...
I don't know the legality of checking in with one PP and then trying to use another for entry... That seems shady and wouldn't match the pax manifest PP info that's transmitted to Brazil...
Pretty Impressive to have Chairman's Preferred on United, since that's a USAir status...
Jul 28, 2014, 11:28 am
#10
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How would the DL agent even know that OP's colleague had a US passport if he was traveling on an Argentinian passport? If the colleague checked in and provided details from his Argentinian passport, the agent would have run TIMATIC using that information, seen that the colleague did not require a visa and the colleague would have been in Brazil by now.
I presume that UA gave the colleague a TIMATIC print out showing the Argentinian information.
I presume that UA gave the colleague a TIMATIC print out showing the Argentinian information.
Jul 28, 2014, 11:33 am
#11
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Well, it happens on UA too 
Denied boarding (on UA) because didn't have Visa for China, though only connecting there.
That said, DL should have made this right by immediately rebooking OP's associate on another airline that got him into São Paulo as close as possible to the original itinerary or at least put the associate in BE that he was rebooked on to for the following day.
As was pointed out in the UA thread that I posted above, do these agents not know how to use TIMATIC?
Denied boarding (on UA) because didn't have Visa for China, though only connecting there.
That said, DL should have made this right by immediately rebooking OP's associate on another airline that got him into São Paulo as close as possible to the original itinerary or at least put the associate in BE that he was rebooked on to for the following day.
As was pointed out in the UA thread that I posted above, do these agents not know how to use TIMATIC?
Jul 28, 2014, 11:34 am
#12
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It's what you do when you're entering your other country, not the case here. A number of countries check against the airline-transmitted info, and will see a mismatch.
Jul 28, 2014, 12:50 pm
#13
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I think the main question here is whether he actually presented the Argentine passport or not.
From the story related to us - It doesn't sound like he did.
I'm also highly suspicious about these "major business deals" that are "blown" due to the presence or lack thereof of someone flying coach who is using an Argentine passport to avoid paying for a Brazilian visa.
From the story related to us - It doesn't sound like he did.
I'm also highly suspicious about these "major business deals" that are "blown" due to the presence or lack thereof of someone flying coach who is using an Argentine passport to avoid paying for a Brazilian visa.
Jul 28, 2014, 12:59 pm
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I think the main question here is whether he actually presented the Argentine passport or not.
From the story related to us - It doesn't sound like he did.
I'm also highly suspicious about these "major business deals" that are "blown" due to the presence or lack thereof of someone flying coach who is using an Argentine passport to avoid paying for a Brazilian visa.
From the story related to us - It doesn't sound like he did.
I'm also highly suspicious about these "major business deals" that are "blown" due to the presence or lack thereof of someone flying coach who is using an Argentine passport to avoid paying for a Brazilian visa.
Still it's depressing for OP co-worker, especially since the Delta employee admitted her mistake. and even before that it could be easily solved by bringing up TIMATIC or bringout a smartphone and show the visa requirements for Argentine passportholders.
Last edited by Grouchy; Jul 28, 2014 at 1:07 pm