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Old Mar 28, 12, 7:10 am   #1
 
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Difference between Premium Economy and Economy Comfort

And what is a W fare?

I've been planning a spring trip to France.

AF shows seats available in Premium Economy.

DL shows those same flights as sold out for W fares.

I'm pretty confused. Is Premium Economy only available on AF-operated flights? And is it significantly better than DL's Economy Comfort section?

I'd be very greatful if anyone can clarify this for me.
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Old Mar 28, 12, 7:18 am   #2
 
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Premium Economy is a whole other class of service on AF flights only. It's a class between J and Y with a different seat and service.

Economy Comfort on KL and DL is regular economy seat and service but with extra recline and pitch.

With PE, you also earn more miles.
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Old Mar 28, 12, 8:40 am   #3
 
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Pick AF over DL/KL...

Look for W class on AF operated flights. The seats are much bigger than on DL/KL and the fare is typically cheaper than the M fare on DL (which can be upgraded) sometimes even Q fares.
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Old Mar 28, 12, 9:26 am   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tennisbum View Post
And what is a W fare?

I've been planning a spring trip to France.

AF shows seats available in Premium Economy.

DL shows those same flights as sold out for W fares.

I'm pretty confused. Is Premium Economy only available on AF-operated flights? And is it significantly better than DL's Economy Comfort section?

I'd be very greatful if anyone can clarify this for me.
AF Premium Voyageur is a step up from Economy. Nicer seat, amenity kit, priority check-in and boarding, but still the same Economy Class food.

The good thing about it is that, if your flight is TATL and you pick the right fare class (W or S), you can upgrade to Business Class for 15,000 miles + taxes, assuming that the flight has availability for business class upgrades and Delta fixes the current issue that prevents them from booking J awards on AF.
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Old Mar 28, 12, 2:22 pm   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B7e7US View Post
The good thing about it is that, if your flight is TATL and you pick the right fare class (W or S), you can upgrade to Business Class for 15,000 miles + taxes, assuming that the flight has availability for business class upgrades and Delta fixes the current issue that prevents them from booking J awards on AF.
We flew PV for the first time in Sept - my husband loved it. I might have created a monster (he doesn't sleep well on planes - and I don't earn enough miles - or money- to do business class) To upgrade with the 15,000 miles from W to J - do you book on AF then (try) to get Delta to upgrade you? Or book through Delta in W class on AF metal and then try to upgrade with miles?

I've been trying to research international mileage upgrades and just the Delta/KLM/AF complications make me want to tear my hair out and run for the bottle of cabernet, so.....All advice appreciated

OP - we booked Premium Voyageur for the ATL-CDG leg of a flight that took us to Athens, and back from Venice. I got lots of my CDG transit advice on the Flying Blue board, and info on the PV seats etc. Many people don't like the seats, but most comparisons seemed to be against business class seats. Well sure they're not going to be that good. But for us -the seats were enough better than coach for my husband to sleep the entire TATL portion of the trip, which has never happened before. And I liked the extra arm space, plus the 2-4-2 configuration we had is really nice for couples.

We were in the intra-europe version of PV as well, but that really isn't anything special - do get some lounge access but we didn't have time to take advantage of it because of our connecting flight.
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Old Mar 28, 12, 2:38 pm   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoyaheel View Post
We flew PV for the first time in Sept - my husband loved it. I might have created a monster (he doesn't sleep well on planes - and I don't earn enough miles - or money- to do business class) To upgrade with the 15,000 miles from W to J - do you book on AF then (try) to get Delta to upgrade you? Or book through Delta in W class on AF metal and then try to upgrade with miles?

I've been trying to research international mileage upgrades and just the Delta/KLM/AF complications make me want to tear my hair out and run for the bottle of cabernet, so.....All advice appreciated
You need to book it on a DL ticket stock (006) with an Air France flight number on S or W class. Calling DL and doing it on the phone is the easiest way, because if you purchase a DL flight on W, the agent will have to change it to an AF flight number and some agents are reluctant to do this as it seems to be a little bit complicated. Also, there's a luxury tax that needs to be paid before the upgraded ticket is reissued.

This thread can help you a lot:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...rance-klm.html
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Old Mar 28, 12, 6:45 pm   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B7e7US View Post
Thank you! (I don't usually pay attention to SWU threads since I don't have them, but guess I should)
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Old Mar 29, 12, 12:09 am   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christefan View Post
Look for W class on AF operated flights. The seats are much bigger than on DL/KL and the fare is typically cheaper than the M fare on DL (which can be upgraded) sometimes even Q fares.
+1
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Old Mar 29, 12, 4:28 am   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph View Post
Premium Economy is a whole other class of service on AF flights only. It's a class between J and Y with a different seat and service.

Economy Comfort on KL and DL is regular economy seat and service but with extra recline and pitch.

With PE, you also earn more miles.
On AF, it is called "Premium Voyageur". It is a separate cabin between "Affaires" (J) and "Voyageur" (Y). I was on an AF 777-300 between IAD and CDG in January, and IIRC there were four rows of "W" class, 8 seats to a row, 2-4-2 (Y is 3-4-3 on that plane). AF claims that, in W, you get 40% more personal space than in Y. On personal observation without taking measurements, the seats are a form of shell seats, with the width being similar to what Delta offered 20+ years ago on the L-1011 in "Medallion" class. There is no difference in the meal service between W and Y, however.
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Old Mar 29, 12, 7:48 am   #10
 
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I just flew PV in January and I was not impressed. I was on the A380 and the A330. For me the seat as lightly padded and has a useless leg rest if you are over 5'5. I would have been just as happy in Y. However, if you can snag a reasonably priced W fare than you are set. AF is pretty reasonable about opening up O inventory for J class upgrades.
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Old Mar 29, 12, 11:26 am   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B7e7US View Post
You need to book it on a DL ticket stock (006) with an Air France flight number on S or W class. Calling DL and doing it on the phone is the easiest way, because if you purchase a DL flight on W, the agent will have to change it to an AF flight number and some agents are reluctant to do this as it seems to be a little bit complicated. Also, there's a luxury tax that needs to be paid before the upgraded ticket is reissued.

This thread can help you a lot:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...rance-klm.html
The problem with booking S or W class with the AF flight numbers is that it's way more expensive than booking W with DL flight numbers and then getting them to change the ticket to AF flight numbers and upgrade.
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Old Mar 29, 12, 11:31 am   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B7e7US View Post
You need to book it on a DL ticket stock (006) with an Air France flight number on S or W class. Calling DL and doing it on the phone is the easiest way, because if you purchase a DL flight on W, the agent will have to change it to an AF flight number and some agents are reluctant to do this as it seems to be a little bit complicated. Also, there's a luxury tax that needs to be paid before the upgraded ticket is reissued.

This thread can help you a lot:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...rance-klm.html
This brings up a good point. I've done my share of SWUs on the AF W fares to J, but never with miles. Do similar restrictions exist as with the SWUs - i.e., if you want to UG someone else they must be on your PNR....you can only UG one other person, etc etc?

Or, can I UG whoever I would like, with my miles, given there is O (even without me flying)?
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Old Apr 2, 12, 12:02 pm   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B7e7US View Post
AF Premium Voyageur is a step up from Economy. Nicer seat, amenity kit, priority check-in and boarding, but still the same Economy Class food.

The good thing about it is that, if your flight is TATL and you pick the right fare class (W or S), you can upgrade to Business Class for 15,000 miles + taxes, assuming that the flight has availability for business class upgrades and Delta fixes the current issue that prevents them from booking J awards on AF.
I did manage to get PV on both out and in bound flights, no UG availability except on the red-eye, which didn't fit my schedule.

The agent had to book by out bound flights in AF B and S, for some reason and therefore the PV seat doesn't show up on the DL website. I mean, it shows that I have the PV seat, but if I go to the change seat link, the PV inventory doesn't show at all. The in bound PV seat inventory shows (I'm booked in W for that one).
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Old Apr 3, 12, 10:56 pm   #14
 
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Talking More on AF Premium Econ...

I have flown AF Premium Voyageur (PV) on a couple occasions in the past year and was not very impressed... was on 777 between ATL and CDG (and 340, I believe, on the return). The space is larger than DL coach and the priority boarding/amenity kit are nice, but the seat has very little padding and it was impossible for me to sleep. Food in coach on AF is not bad (IMHO) and that is what you get... I am fairly sophisticated about wine, too, and what they serve is fine. Food and beverage service begins in the PV cabin, too, so you are sure to get what you want to eat.

Several years ago, I found the AF coach product to be a wee bit superior to Delta's to CDG, however, since the introduction of PV they seem to have compressed the same number of coach seats into a smaller cabin. Everyone in the back appeared utterly miserable on both trips--most people could not position their tray-tables horizontally so they could eat comfortably... the restroom situation is kind of a pain, as PV pax need to walk through the econ cabin and there was always a line.

Aside from all this, if I need to fly AF in the future, I plan to book via DL (and get a better fare than on AF.com) and fly PV or higher. I always set up alerts on Expert Flyer so I can call when the appropriate upgrade opens up in business--it worked two of four flights, which was fine with me.

My two cents...

Regarding Tennisbum's last post... subscribe to expert flyer and learn how to set up an alert so you receive an email when the necessary inventory opens up and you can call DL to have them change your ticket to AF and get the upgrade. On the two occasions I was upgraded out of PV, it happened the night before the flight--fortunately I had my blackberry volume on loud so I would wake up for the email! Inventory on AF often opens up in the 24 hours before the flight. ALSO, once a PV seat (or any other AF seat in my experience) is sold by DL cannot be viewed on the Delta webpage... call DL to get the AF record locator number... then you can log into airfrance.us with the information and see your seat assignment.

Last edited by Daveinatl; Apr 3, 12 at 11:03 pm.
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Old Apr 4, 12, 1:06 am   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtkeller View Post
The problem with booking S or W class with the AF flight numbers is that it's way more expensive than booking W with DL flight numbers and then getting them to change the ticket to AF flight numbers and upgrade.
Anyone have any luck other than Op-up going from economy to PV for free by asking nicely? Kind of like KLMs EC?
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