Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchant’s local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Jan 19, 2015, 11:55 am
#1636
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Ah, "other conversion options" - that's it. But you also have to select a credit card first. A couple times - they try hard to use your bank account and DCC that. God I hate PayPal...
Jan 19, 2015, 12:19 pm
#1637
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott LTP, IHG P, SK EBG
Posts: 11,095
I did and I tried to confirm - I hate paypal too - if I confirm my CC they won't refund it but put in into the paypal account, so they make sure that they can rob you one way or another.
Jan 20, 2015, 2:38 am
#1638
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,801
AE to allow DCC (or is Amex HK brainless?)?
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=13932&p=1 #2
https://www.americanexpress.com/hk/e...df/HKDA_EN.pdf page 7:
It's the exact same wording as other local banks' e.g. Bank of Communications HK Branch http://www.bankcomm.com.hk/mediafile...C_reminder.pdf
The glaring difference though is the other banks will either issue Visas or Mastercards or both, Amex HK issues AE cards only.
So why issue this notice?
Did AE really change their network, or is Amex HK being hopelessly clueless/brainless ("I sent it cos the regulator told me to"?)?
(I did ask the Amex HK agents where this may happen; the staff simply suggested "it might". Can go either way.)
https://www.americanexpress.com/hk/e...df/HKDA_EN.pdf page 7:
"Fees relating to Settling Foreign Currency Transaction in Hong Kong Dollars
Customers may sometimes be offered the option to settle foreign currency transactions in Hong Kong dollars at the point of sale overseas. Such option is a direct arrangement offered by the overseas merchants and not the card issuer. In such cases, customers are reminded to ask the merchants for the foreign currency exchange rates and the percentage of handling fees to be applied before the transactions are entered into since settling foreign currency transactions in Hong Kong dollars may involve a cost higher than the foreign currency transaction handling fee.
Effective from November 2014"
Customers may sometimes be offered the option to settle foreign currency transactions in Hong Kong dollars at the point of sale overseas. Such option is a direct arrangement offered by the overseas merchants and not the card issuer. In such cases, customers are reminded to ask the merchants for the foreign currency exchange rates and the percentage of handling fees to be applied before the transactions are entered into since settling foreign currency transactions in Hong Kong dollars may involve a cost higher than the foreign currency transaction handling fee.
Effective from November 2014"
The glaring difference though is the other banks will either issue Visas or Mastercards or both, Amex HK issues AE cards only.
So why issue this notice?
Did AE really change their network, or is Amex HK being hopelessly clueless/brainless ("I sent it cos the regulator told me to"?)?
(I did ask the Amex HK agents where this may happen; the staff simply suggested "it might". Can go either way.)
Jan 20, 2015, 2:57 am
#1639
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
I think they are referring to when a foreign merchant will allow you to be charged in more than one currency. I.e on planes etc.
Jan 20, 2015, 2:59 am
#1640
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,801
But a fee is *never* applicable for Muti-Currency Processing.
Jan 20, 2015, 8:00 am
#1641
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: HHonors Gold, Marriott Lifetime Gold, IHG Gold, OZ*G, AA Gold, AS MVP
Posts: 1,874
If anyone's wondering, the one instance of DCC I encountered in Japan actually went as well as DCC could go. I'll upload receipts later, but the gist of it is:
1. Foreign card inserted, terminal asks if merchant would like to perform DCC.
2. Terminal prints out a "Service information" slip. It clearly lists the JPY amount, home currency amount, the exchange rate applied, and says to push OK on the PIN pad to accept or Cancel to decline. It very clearly says "transaction will be based on Reuters Wholesale Interbank exchange rate and includes a 3.50% margin".
3. If you decline, a DCC-free slip prints out. If you accept, you get a slip that shows the exchange rate, transaction currency, and transaction amount in home currency.
I was using my CAD credit card at the time and basically did it to see how it worked.
1. Foreign card inserted, terminal asks if merchant would like to perform DCC.
2. Terminal prints out a "Service information" slip. It clearly lists the JPY amount, home currency amount, the exchange rate applied, and says to push OK on the PIN pad to accept or Cancel to decline. It very clearly says "transaction will be based on Reuters Wholesale Interbank exchange rate and includes a 3.50% margin".
3. If you decline, a DCC-free slip prints out. If you accept, you get a slip that shows the exchange rate, transaction currency, and transaction amount in home currency.
I was using my CAD credit card at the time and basically did it to see how it worked.
Jan 20, 2015, 10:20 am
#1642
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
If anyone's wondering, the one instance of DCC I encountered in Japan actually went as well as DCC could go. I'll upload receipts later, but the gist of it is:
1. Foreign card inserted, terminal asks if merchant would like to perform DCC.
2. Terminal prints out a "Service information" slip. It clearly lists the JPY amount, home currency amount, the exchange rate applied, and says to push OK on the PIN pad to accept or Cancel to decline. It very clearly says "transaction will be based on Reuters Wholesale Interbank exchange rate and includes a 3.50% margin".
3. If you decline, a DCC-free slip prints out. If you accept, you get a slip that shows the exchange rate, transaction currency, and transaction amount in home currency.
I was using my CAD credit card at the time and basically did it to see how it worked.
1. Foreign card inserted, terminal asks if merchant would like to perform DCC.
2. Terminal prints out a "Service information" slip. It clearly lists the JPY amount, home currency amount, the exchange rate applied, and says to push OK on the PIN pad to accept or Cancel to decline. It very clearly says "transaction will be based on Reuters Wholesale Interbank exchange rate and includes a 3.50% margin".
3. If you decline, a DCC-free slip prints out. If you accept, you get a slip that shows the exchange rate, transaction currency, and transaction amount in home currency.
I was using my CAD credit card at the time and basically did it to see how it worked.
It doesn't tell you the rate on the pad though.
Jan 25, 2015, 2:30 am
#1643
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
It looks like Amex do allow DCC as this was posted:
"From 21 March 2015, transactions charged and billed in pound Sterling at non-UK merchants will no longer attract 1 additional Membership Rewards point for every equivalent £1 spent. This includes transactions that are converted into pound Sterling by the merchant before being charged and billed (known as “dynamic currency conversion”). Please note that we will not remove any additional Membership Rewards points that have been awarded to you for such transactions up to and including 20 March 2015."
"From 21 March 2015, transactions charged and billed in pound Sterling at non-UK merchants will no longer attract 1 additional Membership Rewards point for every equivalent £1 spent. This includes transactions that are converted into pound Sterling by the merchant before being charged and billed (known as “dynamic currency conversion”). Please note that we will not remove any additional Membership Rewards points that have been awarded to you for such transactions up to and including 20 March 2015."
Jan 25, 2015, 3:11 am
#1644
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,801
Reclusive46: uh oh. Maybe Amex HK's notice is an omen of bad things to come rather than stupid spam.
I received the notice as a standalone notice on 22 January 2015, with effective date 1 November 2014 http://f.email.americanexpress.com/i...6676_pdf01.pdf
I received the notice as a standalone notice on 22 January 2015, with effective date 1 November 2014 http://f.email.americanexpress.com/i...6676_pdf01.pdf
Jan 25, 2015, 3:56 am
#1645
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
If DCC starts happening on Amex cards, one of the HUGE benefits of Amex goes away... and yes, it sounds like Amex is going to start allowing Dynamic Currency Conversion. I hope that is not the case.
Jan 25, 2015, 4:54 am
#1646
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,801
Found more on the message:
http://www.headforpoints.com/2015/01...ith-amex-gold/
This sounds more like multi-currency processing rather than DCC on V/M as we know it. Probably still a false alarm. Amex UK has just joined Citi HK in mislabelling a foreign transaction/cross-border transaction as DCC.
http://www.headforpoints.com/2015/01...ith-amex-gold/
Back in December 2013 I wrote a piece entitled ‘When is £ credit card spend treated as foreign spend?‘. The list of companies who processed your £ transactions outside the UK, thus triggering double points on the Amex Gold card, included Apple, iTunes, Amazon, easyJet, hotels.com, ebookers, American Airlines, Hotelopia, lastminute.com, Ocado and Paypal.
Information regarding additional Membership Rewards® points earned for spend at non-UK merchants
It has come to our attention that you may have previously earned additional Membership Rewards points where a transaction was charged and billed in pound Sterling at non-UK merchants, although such transactions do not attract a bonus under the Membership Rewards programme linked to your Card.
From 21 March 2015, transactions charged and billed in pound Sterling at non-UK merchants will no longer attract 1 additional Membership Rewards point for every equivalent £1 spent. This includes transactions that are converted into pound Sterling by the merchant before being charged and billed (known as “dynamic currency conversion”). Please note that we will not remove any additional Membership Rewards points that have been awarded to you for such transactions up to and including 20 March 2015.
You are (and will remain) eligible to earn an additional 1 Membership Rewards point for every equivalent £1 spent on non-Sterling transactions. If your transaction is converted into pound Sterling before submitting to us, you will earn at your normal rate. Transactions charged and billed in pound Sterling at merchants registered outside of the UK do not attract 1 additional Membership Rewards point for every equivalent £1 spent.
Information regarding additional Membership Rewards® points earned for spend at non-UK merchants
It has come to our attention that you may have previously earned additional Membership Rewards points where a transaction was charged and billed in pound Sterling at non-UK merchants, although such transactions do not attract a bonus under the Membership Rewards programme linked to your Card.
From 21 March 2015, transactions charged and billed in pound Sterling at non-UK merchants will no longer attract 1 additional Membership Rewards point for every equivalent £1 spent. This includes transactions that are converted into pound Sterling by the merchant before being charged and billed (known as “dynamic currency conversion”). Please note that we will not remove any additional Membership Rewards points that have been awarded to you for such transactions up to and including 20 March 2015.
You are (and will remain) eligible to earn an additional 1 Membership Rewards point for every equivalent £1 spent on non-Sterling transactions. If your transaction is converted into pound Sterling before submitting to us, you will earn at your normal rate. Transactions charged and billed in pound Sterling at merchants registered outside of the UK do not attract 1 additional Membership Rewards point for every equivalent £1 spent.
Jan 25, 2015, 1:07 pm
#1647
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,061
I think a similar thing was happening here where people were getting double points on GBP-denominated foreign spend. While I did read some of the comments on that linked article, I didn't see any glaring examples of DCC having occurred over AmEx's network.
Jan 28, 2015, 9:25 pm
#1648
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: DFW,OVB (Russia)
Programs: AA HH Gold SPG Gold BA
Posts: 1,823
I am still thinking this is mislabeling. This is like when British Airways charges a USD card in USD even though the processing is done overseas. The evil thing about this is even if you're using the US website and all prices are quoted in USD natively, you still get hit with a foreign transaction fee if the card has one.
Jan 28, 2015, 10:23 pm
#1649
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,061
Well, we did have one poster file a successful Reason Code 76 chargeback on his Chase Sapphire Preferred. Fortunately most of the higher end Chase cards don't have a FTF anymore. I've been hit by it too before Chase waived the FTF. There was nearly a $50 fee for a transaction processed in USD.
Jan 28, 2015, 11:07 pm
#1650
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,801
We have a case where Citi HK attempted to collect 0.4% FTF on a local BR ticket purchase with its Amex (in its notification of changes pamphlet Citi labelled the FTF as DCC and claimed the fee was collected by Amex).
Cardholder tried to get the fee reversed but Citi CS went and chargebacked the amount and compromised the ticket.
Cardholder got into contact with BR HK who contacted Amex merchant services who confirmed Amex will not collect any 0.4% fee. Cardholder is also trying to get the scale of charges revised:
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=11968&p=7
Cardholder tried to get the fee reversed but Citi CS went and chargebacked the amount and compromised the ticket.
Cardholder got into contact with BR HK who contacted Amex merchant services who confirmed Amex will not collect any 0.4% fee. Cardholder is also trying to get the scale of charges revised:
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=11968&p=7