Another story of abuse of a disabled passenger
Sep 24, 2016, 2:22 pm
#91
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 396
I'm sure they are given adequate training in estimating the exact length of time of a pax's journey, including allowing for potential delays of any sort. I'm sure they're also trained to know which medical supplies can be easily replaced if a pax is delayed during IRROPS and runs out of a needed med.
If they make a mistake, oh well. Win a few, lose a few. Don't like it, don't fly or fly private.
If they make a mistake, oh well. Win a few, lose a few. Don't like it, don't fly or fly private.
prescription(flight Time + distance) / curvature of earth(elevation + barometric pressure)
Sep 24, 2016, 2:51 pm
#92
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
I'm sure they are given adequate training in estimating the exact length of time of a pax's journey, including allowing for potential delays of any sort. I'm sure they're also trained to know which medical supplies can be easily replaced if a pax is delayed during IRROPS and runs out of a needed med.
Don't forget layovers, non-flight hops of a journey, delays that might be overnight, etc etc.
I had a multi-leg multi-country flight (to get to a major city in south america), which went through MIA… and at MIA the screener said she was only going to let me have IIRC 2 or 3 of my bottles of juice. (My choice which ones — what an accommodation!
) Despite them being very obviously just juice.Oh, and she called the cops on me for that, too.
So naturally, I ran out way before I arrived at the place I was going to be staying.
But hey, I got that on video (below, part of 5 from MIA; click for playlist), and they'll be part of my lawsuit on medical liquids (together with ~6 other airports' TSA).
Ah, "justice".
Here is the formula, from Medical and Psychological Guidelines for Transportaion Security Officers
prescription(flight Time + distance) / curvature of earth(elevation + barometric pressure)
prescription(flight Time + distance) / curvature of earth(elevation + barometric pressure)
This part is interesting though: "Recognize odors that should be investigated"
What odors exactly are BDOs supposed to detect? Are they trained like bomb-sniffing dogs?
"Maintain physical control of baggage that contains a weapon, explosive, or incendiary or sets off an ETD alarm until supervisor or LEO arrives."
Huh, that's interesting. I believe that's called executing a seizure of possible evidence for criminal investigation. Funny, TSA denies that TSOs do any such thing.
Last edited by saizai; Sep 24, 2016 at 3:01 pm
Sep 24, 2016, 5:45 pm
#93
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Location: DFW
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Staffing was a term used during my years in the military. Simply put when a directive was created it was drafted then passed up the Chain of Command for review, editing, and final approval.
Sep 24, 2016, 10:08 pm
#94
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,410
I'm sure they are given adequate training in estimating the exact length of time of a pax's journey, including allowing for potential delays of any sort. I'm sure they're also trained to know which medical supplies can be easily replaced if a pax is delayed during IRROPS and runs out of a needed med.
If they make a mistake, oh well. Win a few, lose a few. Don't like it, don't fly or fly private.
If they make a mistake, oh well. Win a few, lose a few. Don't like it, don't fly or fly private.
These days I carry stuff where the doc that suggested it as an answer didn't know how much! (It's OTC so it's not anything he ever wrote a script for.)
Sep 24, 2016, 10:12 pm
#95
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Here is the formula, from Medical and Psychological Guidelines for Transportaion Security Officers
prescription(flight Time + distance) / curvature of earth(elevation + barometric pressure)
prescription(flight Time + distance) / curvature of earth(elevation + barometric pressure)
(Unfortunately, that page is the medical guidelines for TSA workers, not the rules they are supposed to follow.)
Sep 25, 2016, 9:40 am
#96
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Combination of both. And SOPs that imply or encourage unlawful behavior, like the previous memo on liquids saying e.g. prescriptions are "recommended but not required", etc.
(FWIW, I've heard there's a new one out about medical liquids, saying FSDs have discretion on how much is a "reasonable amount" of medical liquid. I consider that unambiguously unconstitutional — there's no amount at which water or juice suddenly turns into WEI. If it's screenable, that should be the end of the matter.)
I don't know what it means for an SOP to be "staffed". An SOP is a document, not a group of people.
^ for substantive answer as to how things are on the ground.
I guess anything @AskTSA would go through the Contact Center.
No offense to you, but it's suspicious that all your feedback is positive. Basically nobody gets 100% positive reviews. To me it implies that at least some negative feedback is getting filtered out / ignored.
(FWIW, I've heard there's a new one out about medical liquids, saying FSDs have discretion on how much is a "reasonable amount" of medical liquid. I consider that unambiguously unconstitutional — there's no amount at which water or juice suddenly turns into WEI. If it's screenable, that should be the end of the matter.)
I don't know what it means for an SOP to be "staffed". An SOP is a document, not a group of people.
^ for substantive answer as to how things are on the ground.
I guess anything @AskTSA would go through the Contact Center.
No offense to you, but it's suspicious that all your feedback is positive. Basically nobody gets 100% positive reviews. To me it implies that at least some negative feedback is getting filtered out / ignored.
AskTSA has advised him to file a claim. Of course, 6 months will pass and the claim will be rejected.
https://twitter.com/cityarrows21/sta...60395830644736
Last edited by petaluma1; Sep 25, 2016 at 9:54 am
Sep 25, 2016, 10:19 am
#97
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Here's a Tweet picked up at AskTSA wherein a person had something removed from his checked luggage, e-mailed the TSA Contact Center to ask about it and, not surprisingly, has heard nothing else.
AskTSA has advised him to file a claim. Of course, 6 months will pass and the claim will be rejected.
https://twitter.com/cityarrows21/sta...60395830644736
AskTSA has advised him to file a claim. Of course, 6 months will pass and the claim will be rejected.
https://twitter.com/cityarrows21/sta...60395830644736
Sep 25, 2016, 12:13 pm
#98
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,111
<ironic laugh>
Don't forget layovers, non-flight hops of a journey, delays that might be overnight, etc etc.
I had a multi-leg multi-country flight (to get to a major city in south america), which went through MIA… and at MIA the screener said she was only going to let me have IIRC 2 or 3 of my bottles of juice. (My choice which ones — what an accommodation!) Despite them being very obviously just juice.
Oh, and she called the cops on me for that, too.
So naturally, I ran out way before I arrived at the place I was going to be staying.
But hey, I got that on video (below, part of 5 from MIA; click for playlist), and they'll be part of my lawsuit on medical liquids (together with ~6 other airports' TSA).
Ah, "justice".
MIA TSO telling me I can't have more than 1 bottle juice & 1 water for flight to Argentina (skip to 3:45)
Yes. I meant no insult to gsoltso. It's just not plausible that anyone with a large amount of public contact has no negative feedback.
… huh? The PDF you linked is about medical requirements to work as a TSO. Has nothing to do with this AFAICT.
This part is interesting though: "Recognize odors that should be investigated"
What odors exactly are BDOs supposed to detect? Are they trained like bomb-sniffing dogs?
"Maintain physical control of baggage that contains a weapon, explosive, or incendiary or sets off an ETD alarm until supervisor or LEO arrives."
Huh, that's interesting. I believe that's called executing a seizure of possible evidence for criminal investigation. Funny, TSA denies that TSOs do any such thing.
Don't forget layovers, non-flight hops of a journey, delays that might be overnight, etc etc.
I had a multi-leg multi-country flight (to get to a major city in south america), which went through MIA… and at MIA the screener said she was only going to let me have IIRC 2 or 3 of my bottles of juice. (My choice which ones — what an accommodation!
) Despite them being very obviously just juice.Oh, and she called the cops on me for that, too.
So naturally, I ran out way before I arrived at the place I was going to be staying.
But hey, I got that on video (below, part of 5 from MIA; click for playlist), and they'll be part of my lawsuit on medical liquids (together with ~6 other airports' TSA).
Ah, "justice".
MIA TSO telling me I can't have more than 1 bottle juice & 1 water for flight to Argentina (skip to 3:45)
Yes. I meant no insult to gsoltso. It's just not plausible that anyone with a large amount of public contact has no negative feedback.
… huh? The PDF you linked is about medical requirements to work as a TSO. Has nothing to do with this AFAICT.
This part is interesting though: "Recognize odors that should be investigated"
What odors exactly are BDOs supposed to detect? Are they trained like bomb-sniffing dogs?
"Maintain physical control of baggage that contains a weapon, explosive, or incendiary or sets off an ETD alarm until supervisor or LEO arrives."
Huh, that's interesting. I believe that's called executing a seizure of possible evidence for criminal investigation. Funny, TSA denies that TSOs do any such thing.
Sep 25, 2016, 1:11 pm
#99
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
Mine are in:
- CA/SFO (2y injury, C.R.S. § 13-80-102, 3y property, Cal. Civ. Proc. Code § 338(c))
- FL/MIA (4y, F.S.A. § 95.11(3)(a),(o))
- NC/RDU (3y, N.C.G.S.A. § 1-52(1)-(5); Nelson v. Patrick, 293 S.E.2d 829 (N.C. 1982))
- NY/LGA (3y, N.Y. C.P.L.R. § 214 et seq)
- TX/DFW (2y, Tex. Civ. Prac. & Rem. Code Ann. § 16.003)
- WA/SEA (2y intentional, R.C.W.A. § 4.16.100; 3y negligence, R.C.W.A. § 4.16.080)
I'm pleading both property damage (i.e. my liquids themselves) and personal injury (a whole variety of state and constitutional torts); both negligent and intentional.
The MA (BOS) action is separate; that's 3y, Mass. Ann. Laws Ch. 260 §§ 2A, 4.
However, I filed a formal Rehabilitation Act complaint about the liquids policy in March 2013, and TSA was held by the District Court for D.C. to have unlawfully delayed responding to my complaint. I filed suit very soon after I got that court-ordered response.
So I think equitable tolling applies, and claims against all of them are timely, because I was properly waiting for them to respond — and their refusal to do so deprived me of important evidence necessary to know some of my claims. Tolling also applies to my FTCA claims.
FWIW, I filed the SFO lawsuit in Feb 2016. (It's been pending preliminary stuff since then, like me asking for a lawyer.)
Last edited by saizai; Sep 25, 2016 at 1:33 pm
Sep 26, 2016, 12:03 pm
#101
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
https://www.facebook.com/Beck5326/po...17596048333851
While I applaud Ms. Beck, I do hope that no one gets their hopes raised too high for this new program. This is the TSA, after all.
Today, I met with the Deputy Administrator of TSA. Yes the big boss at HQ in Wash DC. They wanted to know what happened and how do we do better....
The new program will be "TSA Ambassadors" and they will be random people who may or may not have special needs or people who don't fit the cookie cutter mold.
The new program will be "TSA Ambassadors" and they will be random people who may or may not have special needs or people who don't fit the cookie cutter mold.
Sep 26, 2016, 12:45 pm
#102
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My takeaway: new program, video, training?
- who is the provider of these products and who in TSA/DHS benefits?
- who signed off on academy training that was inadequate?
- a new course? How complicated is it to teach people to respect the bodies they are groping? Doctors and nurses aren't required to take an entire course to teach them how to handle people's bodies with respect. It's simple: handle them the way you would want yourself or your spouse or your parent or your kid handled.
- how will the new program (cost details?) differ from all the previous consultation TSA claims to have been doing with LGBT individuals and organizations?
- who is the provider of these products and who in TSA/DHS benefits?
- who signed off on academy training that was inadequate?
- a new course? How complicated is it to teach people to respect the bodies they are groping? Doctors and nurses aren't required to take an entire course to teach them how to handle people's bodies with respect. It's simple: handle them the way you would want yourself or your spouse or your parent or your kid handled.
- how will the new program (cost details?) differ from all the previous consultation TSA claims to have been doing with LGBT individuals and organizations?
Sep 26, 2016, 1:15 pm
#103
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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If the TSA Deputy Administrator doesn't have an idea of what is wrong with TSA, and what steps to take to fix that problem, then why is that person the Deputy Administrator?
TSA is like a ship without a rudder, just drifting without purpose.
TSA is like a ship without a rudder, just drifting without purpose.
Sep 26, 2016, 1:24 pm
#104
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With all due respect to Ms. Beck, no one at HQ really knows or cares what goes on at the checkpoints.
What the 'big boss' will likely do is start monitoring Ms. Beck's travel to ensure that TSA is warned ahead of time to take out their LGBT prejudices on some other innocent pax.
What the 'big boss' will likely do is start monitoring Ms. Beck's travel to ensure that TSA is warned ahead of time to take out their LGBT prejudices on some other innocent pax.
Sep 27, 2016, 1:57 am
#105
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I've had problems at BWI on 2 of my last 3 trips for medical "opt outs." I still have jacked shoulder from an accident last summer and can't "assume the position."
Actually, I flat out refused. I've taken the pat downs both times. The first time, the screener tried to "call me out" on wanting to avoid the NoS.
I complained both times, and surprisingly, the screening managers got off their duffs and actually went to "rebrief" the screeners on proper procedures.
The patdowns weren't any more aggressive than previous times - but I've always told the screener that I was opting out for medical reasons because the moat dragon wasn't following policy.
Actually, I flat out refused. I've taken the pat downs both times. The first time, the screener tried to "call me out" on wanting to avoid the NoS.
I complained both times, and surprisingly, the screening managers got off their duffs and actually went to "rebrief" the screeners on proper procedures.
The patdowns weren't any more aggressive than previous times - but I've always told the screener that I was opting out for medical reasons because the moat dragon wasn't following policy.