Thoughts on expat life in Kuala Lumpur
Jun 2, 2010, 8:48 pm
#1
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Thoughts on expat life in Kuala Lumpur
I'm in the final stages of a deal that will require that I live in either Singapore or Kuala Lumpur for the better part of the next year. I am veering towards KL, vs. Singapore, but then again I am a fairly unconventional thinker and like to go against the grain.
As things are still not firmed up, I wanted to hear from other FT'ers who might be in or have lived in KL. What do you like about the city? What area do you recommend? What schools? What has been challenging to you? etc.
Thanks in advance.
As things are still not firmed up, I wanted to hear from other FT'ers who might be in or have lived in KL. What do you like about the city? What area do you recommend? What schools? What has been challenging to you? etc.
Thanks in advance.
Jun 3, 2010, 4:18 am
#3
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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I am in KL right now on holiday, and I love it here. Based on "an unconventional thinker who goes against the grain," I think KL fits this description more than Singapore does. Of course, staying in a luxury hotel in KL for a week is not the same as living in an apartment here for 6 months, so I can only offer a limited impression.
What I love about the city is the food. People are generally friendly, and I find it fairly easy to get around. I find the cultural mix in Malaysia refreshing and enlightening, and KL is a great base to explore the region.
If I had to live in KL for 6 months, I would want to be in/near the city center (such as Bukit Bintang), because I enjoy city life, and I get the impression that commuting from the suburbs is a major drag.
NB: If, for some reason, your deal falls through, please submit my name as an alternate.
What I love about the city is the food. People are generally friendly, and I find it fairly easy to get around. I find the cultural mix in Malaysia refreshing and enlightening, and KL is a great base to explore the region.
If I had to live in KL for 6 months, I would want to be in/near the city center (such as Bukit Bintang), because I enjoy city life, and I get the impression that commuting from the suburbs is a major drag.
NB: If, for some reason, your deal falls through, please submit my name as an alternate.
Jun 3, 2010, 5:38 am
#4
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Terra Australis Cognita
Posts: 5,350
I was based in Singapore for 7 years, spent the better part of a year on assignment in KL, and very nearly moved there last year until a more interesting opportunity cropped up. Here's my lowdown.
Things that are better in KL than in Singapore:
+ Singapore is pretty cheap by Western standards, but KL is even cheaper pretty much across the board: housing, eating out, groceries, cars, you name it. Only imported products and most types of booze are the same or occasionally even more expensive.
+ A house of your own is unaffordable for the average expat in Singapore, but eminently feasible in KL.
+ There are lots more interesting places within immediate striking distance of KL than there are from Singapore. Malacca, Ipoh, Genting, Fraser's Hill are a short drive away, and eg. Penang and east coast Malaysia are within easy weekend trip distance.
+ KL is edgier and less bland than Singapore, in both good and bad ways, but all in all odds are you'll feel a bit more like a local and less like a dime-a-dozen expat.
Things that are worse in KL:
- If you want to live in KL, you pretty much have to have a car. I didn't, and it was pretty constraining at times: public transport is limited and taxis are pretty dysfunctional.
- Traffic can be a nightmare, and the standard of driving can be atrocious.
- KL is not as safe as Singapore: you need to keep a sharp eye on your belongings and there are quite a few places where I wouldn't go walking around at night.
- Hygiene is not as high as in Singapore. In Singapore, you can eat and drink pretty much what you wish; in KL, you can almost but not quite do so.
- Malaysian bureaucracy can be pretty bad and business dealings murkier.
- KL is a smaller and poorer city than Singapore, which limits your entertainment options somewhat, and expat circles are smaller.
- Flight connectivity from KUL isn't quite as good as it is from SIN, esp. for business purposes (or collecting frequent flyer miles!), although for cheap getaways it's hard to beat Air Asia.
For half a year or so, I'd say sure, go for KL if the above sounds OK for you. But for eg. starting your own business or raising a family, I'd have to say SIN wins hands down.
Things that are better in KL than in Singapore:
+ Singapore is pretty cheap by Western standards, but KL is even cheaper pretty much across the board: housing, eating out, groceries, cars, you name it. Only imported products and most types of booze are the same or occasionally even more expensive.
+ A house of your own is unaffordable for the average expat in Singapore, but eminently feasible in KL.
+ There are lots more interesting places within immediate striking distance of KL than there are from Singapore. Malacca, Ipoh, Genting, Fraser's Hill are a short drive away, and eg. Penang and east coast Malaysia are within easy weekend trip distance.
+ KL is edgier and less bland than Singapore, in both good and bad ways, but all in all odds are you'll feel a bit more like a local and less like a dime-a-dozen expat.
Things that are worse in KL:
- If you want to live in KL, you pretty much have to have a car. I didn't, and it was pretty constraining at times: public transport is limited and taxis are pretty dysfunctional.
- Traffic can be a nightmare, and the standard of driving can be atrocious.
- KL is not as safe as Singapore: you need to keep a sharp eye on your belongings and there are quite a few places where I wouldn't go walking around at night.
- Hygiene is not as high as in Singapore. In Singapore, you can eat and drink pretty much what you wish; in KL, you can almost but not quite do so.
- Malaysian bureaucracy can be pretty bad and business dealings murkier.
- KL is a smaller and poorer city than Singapore, which limits your entertainment options somewhat, and expat circles are smaller.
- Flight connectivity from KUL isn't quite as good as it is from SIN, esp. for business purposes (or collecting frequent flyer miles!), although for cheap getaways it's hard to beat Air Asia.
For half a year or so, I'd say sure, go for KL if the above sounds OK for you. But for eg. starting your own business or raising a family, I'd have to say SIN wins hands down.
Jun 3, 2010, 9:12 pm
#6
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Interesting responses. Thanks so much. I'm being told that the best housing options for my situation (Me and the Mrs. plus 3 kids) are a villa in Damansara Heights or a condo in the Golden Triangle area. Any thoughts on these areas as places to live?
Jun 4, 2010, 4:34 am
#7
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Terra Australis Cognita
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As a single expat I'd take the condo, but with a family, Damansara would be more comfortable... and SIN would be more comfortable yet.
Jun 4, 2010, 10:42 am
#8
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
Hi,
I totally agree to the previous posters. Last year I lived in KL for ~7 Months and also visited Singapore several times.
The whole thing was one of the best experiences in my life.
To chose between Singapore and KL you should ask yourself, how much difference to western lifestyle you want. If you are doubtful, go to singapore. There it is mostely like in all large western cities. If you like it a bit more "different", you should stay in KL. The city itself is a nice mixture between eastern and western lifestyle but if you leave the KL-Area, you are totally in the middle of eastern lifestyle which is a great experience.
About the place to live in KL:
The first priority should be the safety in the area (mostly totally uncritical). The next priority should be the distance and route to the place you have to work. As I was working in cyberjaya (south of KL), I chose a condo in the KL surroundings from which on I was on the highway within 5 minutes. So I had to drive round about 15min every day. If I had a condo in downtown, this could have taken about an hour, because traffic in KL is horrible during rushhour.
So if you need any more informations about living / working in KL feel free to contact me.
Best regards,
Steffen
I totally agree to the previous posters. Last year I lived in KL for ~7 Months and also visited Singapore several times.
The whole thing was one of the best experiences in my life.
To chose between Singapore and KL you should ask yourself, how much difference to western lifestyle you want. If you are doubtful, go to singapore. There it is mostely like in all large western cities. If you like it a bit more "different", you should stay in KL. The city itself is a nice mixture between eastern and western lifestyle but if you leave the KL-Area, you are totally in the middle of eastern lifestyle which is a great experience.
About the place to live in KL:
The first priority should be the safety in the area (mostly totally uncritical). The next priority should be the distance and route to the place you have to work. As I was working in cyberjaya (south of KL), I chose a condo in the KL surroundings from which on I was on the highway within 5 minutes. So I had to drive round about 15min every day. If I had a condo in downtown, this could have taken about an hour, because traffic in KL is horrible during rushhour.
So if you need any more informations about living / working in KL feel free to contact me.
Best regards,
Steffen
Jun 8, 2010, 2:01 pm
#9
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Hi,
I totally agree to the previous posters. Last year I lived in KL for ~7 Months and also visited Singapore several times.
The whole thing was one of the best experiences in my life.
To chose between Singapore and KL you should ask yourself, how much difference to western lifestyle you want. If you are doubtful, go to singapore. There it is mostely like in all large western cities. If you like it a bit more "different", you should stay in KL. The city itself is a nice mixture between eastern and western lifestyle but if you leave the KL-Area, you are totally in the middle of eastern lifestyle which is a great experience.
About the place to live in KL:
The first priority should be the safety in the area (mostly totally uncritical). The next priority should be the distance and route to the place you have to work. As I was working in cyberjaya (south of KL), I chose a condo in the KL surroundings from which on I was on the highway within 5 minutes. So I had to drive round about 15min every day. If I had a condo in downtown, this could have taken about an hour, because traffic in KL is horrible during rushhour.
So if you need any more informations about living / working in KL feel free to contact me.
Best regards,
Steffen
I totally agree to the previous posters. Last year I lived in KL for ~7 Months and also visited Singapore several times.
The whole thing was one of the best experiences in my life.
To chose between Singapore and KL you should ask yourself, how much difference to western lifestyle you want. If you are doubtful, go to singapore. There it is mostely like in all large western cities. If you like it a bit more "different", you should stay in KL. The city itself is a nice mixture between eastern and western lifestyle but if you leave the KL-Area, you are totally in the middle of eastern lifestyle which is a great experience.
About the place to live in KL:
The first priority should be the safety in the area (mostly totally uncritical). The next priority should be the distance and route to the place you have to work. As I was working in cyberjaya (south of KL), I chose a condo in the KL surroundings from which on I was on the highway within 5 minutes. So I had to drive round about 15min every day. If I had a condo in downtown, this could have taken about an hour, because traffic in KL is horrible during rushhour.
So if you need any more informations about living / working in KL feel free to contact me.
Best regards,
Steffen
Jun 9, 2010, 5:11 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Terra Australis Cognita
Posts: 5,350
Related thread: By the way ... Singapore is NOT just a stopover ....
Jun 9, 2010, 9:33 am
#11
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Location: SEA(sia)
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Popular expat areas in KL are either Bangsar-Damansara Heights-Mont Kiara triangle or Ampang-Ukay Heights on the other side of town. Downtown has traditionally not been a preferred residential address but is slowly changing with new apartment blocks being built around the KLCC area.
I dont think its accurate to describe Singapore as being 'western' ; but it is certainly better planned, more organised and cleaner than most major cities in Asia.
I dont think its accurate to describe Singapore as being 'western' ; but it is certainly better planned, more organised and cleaner than most major cities in Asia.
Jul 16, 2010, 3:54 am
#12
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 97
Having lived in both cities I'd say KL is a more fun place to live, however, your life will be a little calmer and more predictable in Singapore. It depends on what stage of life you're in and how you like to live and relax.
KL is more social, more friendly, has more going on at night, and your money goes farther.
Singapore is clean, safe, everything works as you'd expect, and you still get a good taste of Asian life.
Either way it's a good dilemma to be in.
KL is more social, more friendly, has more going on at night, and your money goes farther.
Singapore is clean, safe, everything works as you'd expect, and you still get a good taste of Asian life.
Either way it's a good dilemma to be in.
Jul 16, 2010, 11:40 am
#13
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If I was single, I'd choose KUL.
Oct 3, 2015, 6:03 pm
#15
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Programs: UA1k, DL
Posts: 3,138
Bumping this thread as I have a similar question.
I am being offered an opportunity with my current employer in KL, and hoping for a bit of information.
A few facts:
- Married
- No Children
- Time in KL likely to be one year, two max
- No guarantee of a way "home" (will have to apply within the firm)
- Basic moving assistance, not a full expat package
- My wife is likely to stay in the US for at least the first 3 months until I get a full lay of the land
- Depending upon how things go, she may not come at all (yes, our relationship will be fine, we initially did the long distance thing between US and Romania)
- Job as offered is VP level, same as I am now, but will likely negotiate one level up
- We live a pretty good life in Tampa
- The offer is for the job to pay in KL RM, will try to negotiate USD
- The company approached me for the opportunity as they need someone there with my skill set, which they have not been able to obtain successfully from the local market
- I'd rather not purchase a vehicle while there
- I do have some USD denominated debt I'll need to service
- In order to continue moving up the ladder at my firm, global mobility is key
Now for the questions,
- My wife currently holds an MBA / Masters in Accounting, with about three years of experience. Would it be difficult for her to find work in KL?
- What am I looking at for a two bedroom apartment in central KL (I'd like to live close to the office)
- Do I even want to live in central KL? Any issues there?
- Using glassdoor as a reference, I see VP level jobs in KL range greatly in terms of annual compensation, 160,000 RM to 300,000 RM per year (base). Is this range sufficient to maintain a great lifestyle (travel to the US one per quarter, nice accommodations, travel within SE Asia, savings, etc.). What should be the minimum I entertain?
Thanks in advance!
I am being offered an opportunity with my current employer in KL, and hoping for a bit of information.
A few facts:
- Married
- No Children
- Time in KL likely to be one year, two max
- No guarantee of a way "home" (will have to apply within the firm)
- Basic moving assistance, not a full expat package
- My wife is likely to stay in the US for at least the first 3 months until I get a full lay of the land
- Depending upon how things go, she may not come at all (yes, our relationship will be fine, we initially did the long distance thing between US and Romania)
- Job as offered is VP level, same as I am now, but will likely negotiate one level up
- We live a pretty good life in Tampa
- The offer is for the job to pay in KL RM, will try to negotiate USD
- The company approached me for the opportunity as they need someone there with my skill set, which they have not been able to obtain successfully from the local market
- I'd rather not purchase a vehicle while there
- I do have some USD denominated debt I'll need to service
- In order to continue moving up the ladder at my firm, global mobility is key
Now for the questions,
- My wife currently holds an MBA / Masters in Accounting, with about three years of experience. Would it be difficult for her to find work in KL?
- What am I looking at for a two bedroom apartment in central KL (I'd like to live close to the office)
- Do I even want to live in central KL? Any issues there?
- Using glassdoor as a reference, I see VP level jobs in KL range greatly in terms of annual compensation, 160,000 RM to 300,000 RM per year (base). Is this range sufficient to maintain a great lifestyle (travel to the US one per quarter, nice accommodations, travel within SE Asia, savings, etc.). What should be the minimum I entertain?
Thanks in advance!