GoAmtrak

Moderator's note: AGR Insider posted an update stating the sleeper cancellation policy will now remain the same until March 1, 2013, while they formulate a new policy.

Please continue discussions in this thread. Thanks!

ByeByeDelta
AGR Moderator


My e-statement today linked to these news blurbs:

The prohibition of on-board upgrades is frankly shocking. Without knowing AGR's motives, it strikes me as a revenue play by AGR to get members to purchase points, at the expense of the core, revenue-earning transportation side of the business. It also comes across as mean-spirited. Amtrak's highly logical policy has always been that conductors should be eager to sell distressed premium inventory on-board and solicit all comers if space is available. Everyone's money is equally green regardless of how they paid for their ticket.

While there are some conductors that ostentatiously disdain this part of their job, the ones that do engage in upsells have always been happy to do so regardless of the ticket type. Even with the highly-restrictive online specials and former, non-upgradeable eBay tickets, boarding the train was like pressing a reset button on policy and the conductors never hesitated to sell an upgrade. This will mark an onerous procedural change for the conductors, as there has never been an explicit prohibition on en-route upgrades for certain ticket types. I predict that the net effect will weigh more heavily towards lost revenue and goodwill for Amtrak than increased revenue for AGR.

This is also a step in the wrong direction for the loyalty program in general, which continues to only offer one-size-fits-all seat upgrades to S/S+ members (with no differential value for using on Acela versus Surfliner), and no sleeper upgrade perks or awards of any kind.

As for the new cancellation policy, the first provision regarding cancelling prior to departure is sensible. The second regarding sleeper awards is draconian, much more so than the policy for paid tickets: "If canceled 14 days or fewer before scheduled departure, but before the scheduled departure, ticket is not refundable but the value may be applied within one year toward future travel."

It's understandable that AGR wouldn't want members to squat on valuable sleeper space only to cancel, but the new policy goes way too far. Why couldn't it harmonize with Amtrak's paid policy? It would work like this: If you redeem for a sleeper award, within 15 days of departure you are then locked in to using that redemption type (e.g. two-zone bedroom) within one year. Change fees could apply but be waived for S+, just as airlines allow award changes for fees (which are waived for top-tier elites). That would probably eliminate nearly all instances of space-squatting, while preserving some measure of flexibility that consumers expect award travel to entail.

I hope AGR will reconsider these changes both as matters of user-friendliness and of unintended consequences.

LilZeppelin

So what happens if you miss a train - forfeit the points? It's silly if that's what they want to do.

GoAmtrak

For paid sleeper tickets, you already forfeit the full value for no-showing. Not so for all other tickets, of course. To avoid point forfeiture, you just have to call AGR now before departure time if you don't think you're going to make it (but you'll be SOL if it's a sleeper or, presumably, if the AGR service center is closed at the time).

AlanB

AFAIK, you can call the regular number to cancel a reservation if the AGR office is closed.

No, Amtrak changed that policy a month or so ago. They are now doing everything that they can to discourage onboard upgrades. On board upgrades no longer sell for the low bucket price, but instead they sell for the current bucket price.

Therefore there is no longer any advantage to waiting until one is on the train to buy a room, one might as well either call from the station or visit with an agent if one is available, to do any last minute upgrades.

Conductors are not prohibited from selling an onboard upgrade to my knowledge, but I suspect that few will even wish to bother with the process now seeing as how it could have been accomplished before boarding with the same results. Heck, even while on the train if one has a stable enough cell phone connection, one can simply call Amtrak to upgrade one's reservation and then just speak with the conductor to facilitate the transfer from coach to the sleeper.

GoAmtrak

Thanks, Alan, I was not aware of that change. Obviously Amtrak is right to continue maximizing sleeper revenue given the scarcity of space. That still doesn't explain the logic in prohibiting upgrades on AGR tickets. In fact, it makes it even less logical -- and the lost revenue for Amtrak even worse -- if the prevailing accommodation charge bucket is high in any given situation.

AlanB

Part of the change was indeed no doubt simply to maximize revenue.

However, part of the reason for the recent change regarding onboard upgrades and what they cost is due to eTicketing. While I admit that I don't understand exactly how or why this is the case, apparently eTicketing made things more complicated for the conductors and not easier. I remain at a loss as to why this is the case; one would naturally assume the opposite that it would be easier with the advent of eTicketing. But, again, that is apparently not the case.

Greytop

Trying to make sure I understand things correctly.

If I book sleeping room award and later cancel a reasonable time before departure (say a month), do the points go back into my account like I never had an award or are they restricted in any fashion.

I'm concerned about having to use the points by a certain date or don't get points back but can use same award type by a certain date.

Tried reading rules but not totally clear.

Hoping someone will confirm that I just get all points back in my account and can use whenever, however I want.

Thanks in advance.

darben

Try this thread
Award policy changes re: cancellation and no on-board upgrades

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amtra...-policies.html

AlanB

Greytop,

If you cancel a month before, then yes you get the points back. The key is to do it prior to 15 days before your departure. Cancel after that point and you could be in trouble; although I would hope that AGR will take into consideration extenuating circumstances like a medical condition or god forbid a death in the family.

jimhudson

Hopefully the new GM @ 60 Mass, Doug Varn (and other Senior Managers) will take a look @ this Ill Advised and Unfair Draconian Policy and Modify it to be more in line with the New Rules on Paid Reservations! Having the Same Groundrules for AGR Redemption Trips would be the Sensible and Fair way to go IMO! (ie maybe a 10% penalty for cancelling/revising a Reservation that involves a Sleeper less than 15 Days before Departure UNLESS Valid Circumstances that are listed, ie illness, death, weather emergencies etc occur!) Taking away Hard Earned Benefits from your Best Customers is a Poor Business Model no matter what you are selling! Come on 60 Mass, use your Brains!!

gatelouse

Does any airline FF program impose a no redeposit, no exchange rule on premium award tickets within X days of departure?

The sleeper award cancellation policy goes too far in my book. It's trivial to implement a redeposit with penalty, whether in cash or points. I can't understand why AGR chose the nuclear option instead.

The first posts of 2013 could well be complaints from folks who lost 50k points despite canceling prior to departure. I sincerely hope AGR is reconsidering this policy. (I'm honestly reconsidering my loyalty to the AGR program.)

nerd

And on the other hand, does any airline allow you to cancel a premium award ticket with no penalty up to 15 days in advance?

Have you frequently cancelled a sleeper award within the 15 day window? If your loyalty is based on the ability to do that, maybe it's not the loyalty that Amtrak is looking for.

3Cforme

I can't speak to the 200+ IATA carriers, but Delta allows free award redeposits to its top two tiers of elites, up to 72 hours before scheduled travel. American allows free changes of travel dates if origin and destination remain the same, right up to time of travel.

Amtrak's new fifteen-day window seems lengthy to me, even punitive, but I'm not looking at data of typical advance sleeper bookings, and of sleeper award bookings in particular.

vatraveler

United allows free redeposits for top-tier Elites as well. Have taken advantage many times.

AGR Insider

We do value our loyal members and customers and it was not our intent to give you the impression that we don't. We know that in order to have enough points to redeem for a trip in a sleeper, you have spent a lot on Amtrak travel or on the AGR credit card. Your business is important to us and we want you to continue to redeem your points for sleepers. This policy is not being introduced to make redemption travel more difficult for you. If you find that your plans change and the deadline has passed, please be assured that all extenuating circumstances will be considered on a case-by-case basis and we will do our best to accommodate your request to modify your itinerary or refund your points without penalty.


Sincerely,

Vicky Radke
Program Director, Amtrak Guest Rewards