AC Presence on FT
Oct 28, 2014, 8:27 am
#1171
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC 50k 1MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 3,400
Oct 28, 2014, 8:57 am
#1172
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Agree.
It would be extremely naive to think that AC reps (the known and the unknown participants here) did not anticipate there would be a vocal discussion on this board, whether it be in reaction to the 2015 changes or other issues.
AC is a massive corporation that has millions of customers and suppliers. It would seem to me that FT is a great giant focus group. In my experience, looking at it as a marketing tool, and watching with clients from behind the glass wall, you may not like everything you hear, but if the participants are honest, you as the client may learn a lot more than anonymous or limited scope surveys.
It would be unfortunate if the reps chose not to return, but even if the mods did not delete enough of the nasty comments, the AC reps should be skilled and professional enough to read past those and still consider the value of what is being discussed, positive or otherwise. IMHO.
It would be extremely naive to think that AC reps (the known and the unknown participants here) did not anticipate there would be a vocal discussion on this board, whether it be in reaction to the 2015 changes or other issues.
AC is a massive corporation that has millions of customers and suppliers. It would seem to me that FT is a great giant focus group. In my experience, looking at it as a marketing tool, and watching with clients from behind the glass wall, you may not like everything you hear, but if the participants are honest, you as the client may learn a lot more than anonymous or limited scope surveys.
It would be unfortunate if the reps chose not to return, but even if the mods did not delete enough of the nasty comments, the AC reps should be skilled and professional enough to read past those and still consider the value of what is being discussed, positive or otherwise. IMHO.
THANKS!
Oct 28, 2014, 9:10 am
#1173
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,517
I only read the first few dozen pages in the new 2015 Altitude programme and will comment Ben L & Andrew for those. I cannot comment on anything further as I found it was getting redundant and knew it would soon get out of hand.
Ben L. and Andrew simply answered people's questions of the specifics of the programme and correct when there were misunderstandings foe clarity. They avoided getting into discussions that they knew would not lead to anything productive.
I am afraid they are in a lose/lose position on most threads. If they answer, they are (mostly) criticized, if they refrain, they are accused of cowardice for not responding.
I hope they stick around because I appreciate the inside information they provide, whether or not I like the answer. If I want the standard apologetic, useless answers, I'll use conventional methods and take the form letters for what they are worth. At least here we were getting good information.
To those who believe you are owed something by an airline and that you are being exploited, I respect your right to vent and comment; however flawed I believe your ideas to be. But please, can we stop acting like victims?
Ben L. and Andrew simply answered people's questions of the specifics of the programme and correct when there were misunderstandings foe clarity. They avoided getting into discussions that they knew would not lead to anything productive.
I am afraid they are in a lose/lose position on most threads. If they answer, they are (mostly) criticized, if they refrain, they are accused of cowardice for not responding.
I hope they stick around because I appreciate the inside information they provide, whether or not I like the answer. If I want the standard apologetic, useless answers, I'll use conventional methods and take the form letters for what they are worth. At least here we were getting good information.
To those who believe you are owed something by an airline and that you are being exploited, I respect your right to vent and comment; however flawed I believe your ideas to be. But please, can we stop acting like victims?
Oct 28, 2014, 9:16 am
#1174
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,804
Yes they may have left. But let's not buy into the face-saving exercise.
They left because they realized the whole clumsy exercise had turned into a major blunder on their part and could not be continued. A textbook case of how not to use social media.
Very poor judgement. Which is consistent with the amateurish and inconsistent revision of the FF program. One-dimensional focus on reduction of available J seats. But impact of which on revenue management and what had been AC's use of upgrdes on revenue management was likely never properly taken into consideration. Likely will turn into another major blunder. However we may have to wait for a while until that gets confirmed.
Might be time to sell short? Definitely not to buy.
Oct 28, 2014, 12:19 pm
#1175
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Left
Programs: FT
Posts: 7,285
until this point, one could argue it was all happy clappy but if AC beetles away under a stump when people vent or challenge some very bad decisions, then i'd take nothing over happy clappy any day of the week.
Oct 28, 2014, 4:12 pm
#1176
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Honors Diamond. Priority Club Platinum. Emerald Club Executive Elite
Posts: 446
I mean no disrespect to anyone that works for AC, but I have been wondering; what types of responses were they expecting? Were they REALLY shocked about the outrage?
These were massive changes. All of them are within the right of AC to introduce them. Some are upset they were announced so late into the year. Others are happy the announcements came out before major purchasing of tickets in the new year. Still others have asked about the FP's already purchased.
I'm sorry if AC official representation has left here. I'm sorry even more that they were unable to pre-gauge the response to the changes.
Seriously, what did they anticipate the response to be?
Oct 28, 2014, 4:33 pm
#1177
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,604
AFAIK a few posters decided to take Ben's comments about 'AC not being a charity' or upgrades 'cheapening the J cabin' and run with it. Neither of these comments are inaccurate for any airline, but perhaps Ben could have messaged this better. But on FT we've been asking for an open channel of communication with AC reps for years, and finally we got it back. If the standard we're holding them to is to parse every statement out of context and treat them like some did, then their options are either to leave, or have marketing and legal review each one of their posts. In either of those cases, we would have lost something.
Pretty much anyone that doesn't buy J 100% of the time is affected by these changes, and that includes me. I'm not happy. I'm frustrated, I feel let down given the loyalty I've given the airline, and I certainly fault AC on the late notice of these changes and have stated so on the other thread.
However there is never an excuse to be as rude, condescending, or resort to personal attacks as some of the posters have done.
Oct 28, 2014, 4:36 pm
#1178
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MLL / AC Cafe
Programs: It's hard to get status when the website won't let me book flights.
Posts: 5,706
If you read the first several hundred posts in the Altitude 2015 thread before things went downhill Ben L and Andrew acknowledged that we would not be happy with the changes and answered questions quickly and factually, without any spin. Several high revenue posters even went on to publicly state they would leave if some of these changes were not reversed. All of this was done in a respectful fashion.
AFAIK a few posters decided to take Ben's comments about 'AC not being a charity' or upgrades 'cheapening the J cabin' and run with it. Neither of these comments are inaccurate for any airline, but perhaps Ben could have messaged this better. But on FT we've been asking for an open channel of communication with AC reps for years, and finally we got it back. If the standard we're holding them to is to parse every statement out of context and treat them like some did, then their options are either to leave, or have marketing and legal review each one of their posts. In either of those cases, we would have lost something.
Pretty much anyone that doesn't buy J 100% of the time is affected by these changes, and that includes me. I'm not happy. I'm frustrated, I feel let down given the loyalty I've given the airline, and I certainly fault AC on the late notice of these changes and have stated so on the other thread.
However there is never an excuse to be as rude, condescending, or resort to personal attacks as some of the posters have done.
AFAIK a few posters decided to take Ben's comments about 'AC not being a charity' or upgrades 'cheapening the J cabin' and run with it. Neither of these comments are inaccurate for any airline, but perhaps Ben could have messaged this better. But on FT we've been asking for an open channel of communication with AC reps for years, and finally we got it back. If the standard we're holding them to is to parse every statement out of context and treat them like some did, then their options are either to leave, or have marketing and legal review each one of their posts. In either of those cases, we would have lost something.
Pretty much anyone that doesn't buy J 100% of the time is affected by these changes, and that includes me. I'm not happy. I'm frustrated, I feel let down given the loyalty I've given the airline, and I certainly fault AC on the late notice of these changes and have stated so on the other thread.
However there is never an excuse to be as rude, condescending, or resort to personal attacks as some of the posters have done.
Oct 28, 2014, 4:52 pm
#1179
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 648
Have they said they have left?
Not surprised ......it was the meanest board on FT full of paid lobbyists
and the like
OH and they have never had government help (which i sincerely hope never happens again) and Porter is getting a better deal then AC ever did at the Island (even though porter built a great biz)........and and and
But they take the Bonus plan don't they ;-)
Not surprised ......it was the meanest board on FT full of paid lobbyists
and the like
OH and they have never had government help (which i sincerely hope never happens again) and Porter is getting a better deal then AC ever did at the Island (even though porter built a great biz)........and and and
But they take the Bonus plan don't they ;-)
Oct 28, 2014, 6:14 pm
#1180
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Titanium, National Executive
Posts: 1,586
I don't think they said they would leave.
Just that they can if they are not wanted.
And (rightfuly so) Ben said they would ignore certain posters.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23738496-post69.html
Just that they can if they are not wanted.
And (rightfuly so) Ben said they would ignore certain posters.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23738496-post69.html
Oct 28, 2014, 6:35 pm
#1181
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 648
I don't think they said they would leave.
Just that they can if they are not wanted.
And (rightfuly so) Ben said they would ignore certain posters.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23738496-post69.html
Just that they can if they are not wanted.
And (rightfuly so) Ben said they would ignore certain posters.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23738496-post69.html
I think little Ben's heart is in the right place and he's probably a great guy but you can only defend things to a point when the airline has changed so much and the senior execs are getting the bonuses they are.
Oct 28, 2014, 6:47 pm
#1182
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YFC
Programs: AC*SE100K; Marriott Titanium; NEXUS
Posts: 1,523
I, for one, am not surprised they left. I would be skeptical on the notion that their departure has anything to do with them feeling they bungled the response to customers about this change. It seems to me it has much more to do with the behaviour of certain FTers.
When they came on here explaining their reasons for the change (as flawed as some of that may be from many perspectives--mine included), they took responsibility for the changes and provided as much info as they could so we could understand. We may disagree with the rationale, but they had one and they shared it.
It's unfortunate that we hold them up to a certain standard when they post here, but then if people go overboard with extensive and sensationalistic remarks, they don't take responsibility those remarks. A bit of a double standard, no?
If what happened on this board played out at an airport counter somewhere and the words that were exchanged were done verbally and in person, the conversation would have ended a lot sooner I'll bet. We somehow are better able at self-control outside cyberworld. This shouldn't be the case if people actually want to have their perspectives taken seriously in this medium and engage in a constructive debate on issues important to many of us.
When they came on here explaining their reasons for the change (as flawed as some of that may be from many perspectives--mine included), they took responsibility for the changes and provided as much info as they could so we could understand. We may disagree with the rationale, but they had one and they shared it.
It's unfortunate that we hold them up to a certain standard when they post here, but then if people go overboard with extensive and sensationalistic remarks, they don't take responsibility those remarks. A bit of a double standard, no?
If what happened on this board played out at an airport counter somewhere and the words that were exchanged were done verbally and in person, the conversation would have ended a lot sooner I'll bet. We somehow are better able at self-control outside cyberworld. This shouldn't be the case if people actually want to have their perspectives taken seriously in this medium and engage in a constructive debate on issues important to many of us.
Oct 28, 2014, 7:11 pm
#1183
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Titanium, National Executive
Posts: 1,586
I, for one, am not surprised they left. I would be skeptical on the notion that their departure has anything to do with them feeling they bungled the response to customers about this change. It seems to me it has much more to do with the behaviour of certain FTers.
When they came on here explaining their reasons for the change (as flawed as some of that may be from many perspectives--mine included), they took responsibility for the changes and provided as much info as they could so we could understand. We may disagree with the rationale, but they had one and they shared it.
It's unfortunate that we hold them up to a certain standard when they post here, but then if people go overboard with extensive and sensationalistic remarks, they don't take responsibility those remarks. A bit of a double standard, no?
If what happened on this board played out at an airport counter somewhere and the words that were exchanged were done verbally and in person, the conversation would have ended a lot sooner I'll bet. We somehow are better able at self-control outside cyberworld. This shouldn't be the case if people actually want to have their perspectives taken seriously in this medium and engage in a constructive debate on issues important to many of us.
When they came on here explaining their reasons for the change (as flawed as some of that may be from many perspectives--mine included), they took responsibility for the changes and provided as much info as they could so we could understand. We may disagree with the rationale, but they had one and they shared it.
It's unfortunate that we hold them up to a certain standard when they post here, but then if people go overboard with extensive and sensationalistic remarks, they don't take responsibility those remarks. A bit of a double standard, no?
If what happened on this board played out at an airport counter somewhere and the words that were exchanged were done verbally and in person, the conversation would have ended a lot sooner I'll bet. We somehow are better able at self-control outside cyberworld. This shouldn't be the case if people actually want to have their perspectives taken seriously in this medium and engage in a constructive debate on issues important to many of us.
Probably came around to answer some questions and provide ACs prospective and took a break until things calm down a bit.
They knew this uproar would happen just like it did in 2011 when eups where brought in (an improvement over paper certs for me BTW). I don't believe they thought people would just say okay and not weigh in. It probably just does not make sense to stay on the board saying the same thing over and over and take a (virtual) beating form the posters.
Oct 28, 2014, 7:25 pm
#1184
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYJ - Victoria
Programs: E50K
Posts: 453
I would guess that they are reading some of the posts, not all of them, watching for the flames to die down a bit. There is little incentive to come back to the board just so people can rant and take words out of context.
I know from personal experience that one or two calm, rational voices will be drowned out by the people who snipe from the sidelines. It becomes hopeless, and you dread going back to the site because you know you will get the same BS as before. The best way to cool things down is to pull out for a while.
I suspect that B B and A will be back at some point, but not for a few days. And I certainly don't think that the personal attacks in the past few days have made them believe that they should do anything for us; those attacks would have stiffened my resolve. Let's hope that FT still has a tiny bit of credibility.
I don't like the changes that were announced, but I can sympathize with the three AC people who tried to talk us through them. They did the best they could in an unwinnable situation. A couple of threads here are absolute embarrassments. (And now, the contrarian in me is urging me to book AC for Europe, just so I can disassociate myself from the haters.)
I know from personal experience that one or two calm, rational voices will be drowned out by the people who snipe from the sidelines. It becomes hopeless, and you dread going back to the site because you know you will get the same BS as before. The best way to cool things down is to pull out for a while.
I suspect that B B and A will be back at some point, but not for a few days. And I certainly don't think that the personal attacks in the past few days have made them believe that they should do anything for us; those attacks would have stiffened my resolve. Let's hope that FT still has a tiny bit of credibility.
I don't like the changes that were announced, but I can sympathize with the three AC people who tried to talk us through them. They did the best they could in an unwinnable situation. A couple of threads here are absolute embarrassments. (And now, the contrarian in me is urging me to book AC for Europe, just so I can disassociate myself from the haters.)
Oct 28, 2014, 8:04 pm
#1185
Join Date: Jul 2005
Programs: SQ *Gold
Posts: 871
ignoring posters is fine i guess........i was pretty positive about them when they started but Big Ben seemed to have some off beat opinions IMO so i didn't bother.
I think little Ben's heart is in the right place and he's probably a great guy but you can only defend things to a point when the airline has changed so much and the senior execs are getting the bonuses they are.
I think little Ben's heart is in the right place and he's probably a great guy but you can only defend things to a point when the airline has changed so much and the senior execs are getting the bonuses they are.
I have the same opinions re: the two Bens.