View Poll Results: Is an American Airlines/US Airways merger good for the traveling public?
Yes
84
28.19%
No
214
71.81%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll
Last edit by: aztimm
Note:
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'
#1726
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP, UA former 1K (1.9MM and gone), Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,111
Parker has already burned his bridges with UA to a large extent, who will trust him as a partner even less than before. AA/1W should welcome the added routes to fill in some big network gaps and, if they have doubts about the guy's intentions, will be less threatened by Parker as a minority partner than as head of the world's largest airline.
Out of curiosity, where was Parker the last time US & AA were allied?
#1727
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
Parker started with AA in the early 90's then HP from the late 90's. Until he became President/CEO of HP in 2001 shortly before 911 he was in a variety of finance roles.
You're right about CO's move to *A. Without being privy to inside info I assumed the it was a prelude to the merger.
Jim
You're right about CO's move to *A. Without being privy to inside info I assumed the it was a prelude to the merger.
Jim
#1728
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
#1729
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Is it likely? I don't believe it is.
Here's why: Parker has said that Star Alliance has been good for US. If he wanted US in Oneworld, then why did US join Star in 2004? And why hasn't US joined Oneworld in the intervening years?
Answer: Either Parker values being in Star more than being in Oneworld or because Oneworld turned him down sometime in the previous 12 years since he took over as US CEO.
We don't know the answers.
One thing we do know is that Parker engineered a hostile takeover of AA last February. We know that Horton was not in favor of the merger, but that AA creditors were sold on the merger and overruled Horton.
Another almost indisputable fact is that there was no chance that a combined US-AA would be permitted to join Star, especially not the immunized alliances that AA has with BA/IB and JAL. European regulators have hinted that they aren't happy that many of the world's airlines have paired off into just three big alliances. No way would they approve the world's two largest airlines (AA and UA) to be in the same antitrust immunized alliance. Not a chance at all.
My guess (gut feeling - no evidence) is that US was planning to join Oneworld solely because that was the only possible result following the merger with AA. IMO, if there is no merger, then there is no push by US to join Oneworld and there is no push by other Oneworld members (not even AA) to invite US to join.
Bottom line: US joins OW if the merger happens, and stays where it is if the merger does not happen.
#1730
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
A stand-alone US needs a lot of international partners to feed it since it lacks a sizable international operation of it's own. *A has filled that role nicely.
Jim
#1731
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP, UA former 1K (1.9MM and gone), Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,111
Of course there's a possibility that US could switch from Star Alliance to Oneworld before a merger or if the merger is blocked.
Is it likely? I don't believe it is.
Here's why: Parker has said that Star Alliance has been good for US. If he wanted US in Oneworld, then why did US join Star in 2004? And why hasn't US joined Oneworld in the intervening years?
Answer: Either Parker values being in Star more than being in Oneworld or because Oneworld turned him down sometime in the previous 12 years since he took over as US CEO.
We don't know the answers.
One thing we do know is that Parker engineered a hostile takeover of AA last February. We know that Horton was not in favor of the merger, but that AA creditors were sold on the merger and overruled Horton.
Another almost indisputable fact is that there was no chance that a combined US-AA would be permitted to join Star, especially not the immunized alliances that AA has with BA/IB and JAL. European regulators have hinted that they aren't happy that many of the world's airlines have paired off into just three big alliances. No way would they approve the world's two largest airlines (AA and UA) to be in the same antitrust immunized alliance. Not a chance at all.
My guess (gut feeling - no evidence) is that US was planning to join Oneworld solely because that was the only possible result following the merger with AA. IMO, if there is no merger, then there is no push by US to join Oneworld and there is no push by other Oneworld members (not even AA) to invite US to join.
Bottom line: US joins OW if the merger happens, and stays where it is if the merger does not happen.
Is it likely? I don't believe it is.
Here's why: Parker has said that Star Alliance has been good for US. If he wanted US in Oneworld, then why did US join Star in 2004? And why hasn't US joined Oneworld in the intervening years?
Answer: Either Parker values being in Star more than being in Oneworld or because Oneworld turned him down sometime in the previous 12 years since he took over as US CEO.
We don't know the answers.
One thing we do know is that Parker engineered a hostile takeover of AA last February. We know that Horton was not in favor of the merger, but that AA creditors were sold on the merger and overruled Horton.
Another almost indisputable fact is that there was no chance that a combined US-AA would be permitted to join Star, especially not the immunized alliances that AA has with BA/IB and JAL. European regulators have hinted that they aren't happy that many of the world's airlines have paired off into just three big alliances. No way would they approve the world's two largest airlines (AA and UA) to be in the same antitrust immunized alliance. Not a chance at all.
My guess (gut feeling - no evidence) is that US was planning to join Oneworld solely because that was the only possible result following the merger with AA. IMO, if there is no merger, then there is no push by US to join Oneworld and there is no push by other Oneworld members (not even AA) to invite US to join.
Bottom line: US joins OW if the merger happens, and stays where it is if the merger does not happen.
Once Parker acquired US, he was looking for another merger partner, which would have dictated choice of alliance, and his top choice (UA) was already in the same alliance. His relative position weakened once CO/UA merged, but why switch until he had the right merger partner? Looking at it today, though, AA seems like his only viable option (even if he has to wait a few years until the Republicans are back in power), so why not get cozy with AA again and move to the alliance that needs US the most?
#1732
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
The relationship was almost surely closer with BA - they took over routes using wet-leased US planes. AA at the time was little more than a code-share partner. Of course, both relationships basically ceased when AA & BA joined in OW.
Personally, I have no doubt that US needs an alliance more than an alliance needs US. The same goes for a merger with a major carrier. However, opinions vary as to which alliance is the most desirable - *A claims the number of carriers/destinations, OW claims the "class" carriers, and ST claims something I'm sure. Whose claims ring most true probably depends on the traveler as much or more than the alliance.
Jim
Personally, I have no doubt that US needs an alliance more than an alliance needs US. The same goes for a merger with a major carrier. However, opinions vary as to which alliance is the most desirable - *A claims the number of carriers/destinations, OW claims the "class" carriers, and ST claims something I'm sure. Whose claims ring most true probably depends on the traveler as much or more than the alliance.
Jim
#1733
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,436
If the merger doesn't happen, it will be due to antitrust issues. It's very helpful to get antitrust clearance for alliance participation. The odds the DOJ will approve a full alliance between AA and US after having blocked a merger don't seem very high, but you never know.
#1734
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
If the merger doesn't happen, it will be due to antitrust issues. It's very helpful to get antitrust clearance for alliance participation. The odds the DOJ will approve a full alliance between AA and US after having blocked a merger don't seem very high, but you never know.
And US can function in OW just as well as it functions in Star. In fact, being in OW would give them better access at LHR. Which is something I think they would appreciate. BA and IB fly into BOS, BA flies to PHL and PHX. So US can provide them feed on those ends. And BA can make use of the US FF base in DCA for its service out of IAD.
#1735
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,436
Based on what? By supposition, the merger having been blocked on antitrust grounds.
#1736
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
Two airlines merging into one airline is not the same as two airlines being in the same global alliance. Particularly if no JV/ATI venture is being pursued. US would be operating as a separate carrier at least 1.5-2 years while being in the OW alliance even if there were merger approval. So Parker & Co. need to decide soon if they want US to be in OW regardless of the merger. And if they do, then they may as well start working on that crossover now instead of later. And I don't think any OW member would be against them joining.
Last edited by Fanjet; Sep 11, 2013 at 9:19 pm
#1737
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York and Vienna
Programs: PA WorldPass Platinum, AA, DL, LH. GHA Black, SPG and HHonors Gold
Posts: 3,870
Originally Posted by DCann
Two important bits of news just in...
American, US Airways to Seek Extension for Merger Deadline, Defend Plans in Court Filings
Two important bits of news just in...
American, US Airways to Seek Extension for Merger Deadline, Defend Plans in Court Filings
Last edited by jspira; Sep 11, 2013 at 11:01 pm
#1738
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,436
And of course an alliance is not a merger, but many alliance members prefer to cooperate to the degree that requires ATI.
#1739
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Bankruptcy court approves AA's plan of reorganization and merger with US:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...ion-plan.html/
If the antitrust suit is resolved in the airlines' favor, then the POR becomes effective and AA emerges from bankruptcy, merged with US.
If the airlines make material changes to the plan (like large concessions), then the plan has to go back for creditor and court approval.
If the merger is blocked, then obviously the POR is void and AA starts again by preparing an alternate POR.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...ion-plan.html/
If the antitrust suit is resolved in the airlines' favor, then the POR becomes effective and AA emerges from bankruptcy, merged with US.
If the airlines make material changes to the plan (like large concessions), then the plan has to go back for creditor and court approval.
If the merger is blocked, then obviously the POR is void and AA starts again by preparing an alternate POR.
#1740
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
Bankruptcy court approves AA's plan of reorganization and merger with US:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...ion-plan.html/
If the antitrust suit is resolved in the airlines' favor, then the POR becomes effective and AA emerges from bankruptcy, merged with US.
If the airlines make material changes to the plan (like large concessions), then the plan has to go back for creditor and court approval.
If the merger is blocked, then obviously the POR is void and AA starts again by preparing an alternate POR.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...ion-plan.html/
If the antitrust suit is resolved in the airlines' favor, then the POR becomes effective and AA emerges from bankruptcy, merged with US.
If the airlines make material changes to the plan (like large concessions), then the plan has to go back for creditor and court approval.
If the merger is blocked, then obviously the POR is void and AA starts again by preparing an alternate POR.