Classic UA screw-up
Jul 29, 2008, 2:04 pm
#16
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 旧金山/Old Gold Hill/SFO
Programs: UA 1P, Marriott Platium, SPG
Posts: 1,001
Well, I'll simply say what I say to all my WN friends... Try flying them to HKG or LHR.
Jul 29, 2008, 2:24 pm
#18
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LAX, IAD
Programs: UA1K 1MM
Posts: 19
Fly SW and stop complaining
On the week before July 13, I had to choose between taking Southwest (with one stop in either PHX or LAS) from DEN to RNO, or taking UA/TED non-stop. Since it was scheduled for two or more extra hours with the layover, I selected UA/TED. Little did I know that it actually would have been faster to take Southwest with one stop.
I arrived at the airport and walked down to the gate for UA/TED 1467, the 5:53pm departure DEN-RNO on July 13. The airplane was there. I thought great, except that seems like a poor utilization of equipment. Southwest would never have an aircraft sitting at the gate for more than a hour. Well, first reason that UA keeps losing money, I thought, but this should be good for me, at least the equipment was there. I went off to get some dinner.
I came back about 15 minutes before boarding and now the sign shows the flight as "delayed." Oh, here we go again with United, I thought. The aircraft was there, but the pilots were not. Turns out the pilots were stuck at Dulles. Again, this escapes me. Why not keep the aircraft and the pilots together throughout the day, like Southwest does? The GA announces that they are "searching for pilots." Here we are at United's hub (DEN) and they don't have A-320 pilots? Sad state of affairs.
They search for almost 2 hours and finally cancel the flight. The GA can't do anything for you, you have to go to their customer service center. Everybody takes off in a run. We stand in line for 30-45 minutes. By this time, the last flight for SFO has left, which could have connected me to RNO.
The CSC agents don't know anything about the RNO cancellation and have to check with the supervisor to find out if they can give hotel vouchers, even though the GA has promised them. Finally they give a hotel voucher. I ask about UA/TED 1469, the 9:20pm departure to RNO. The reply: Oh, that is overbooked, you will never get on that.
I go down to UA/TED 1469's gate anyway. With the problems from Dulles, there are at least 14 misconnects, meaning 14 open seats on 1469. I get on that flight. Thanks to my efforts, I saved United the cost of a hotel night. Do they give me anything for my efforts? Nope!
I paid for an E+ upgrade on UA/TED 1467 and they can't give me that on 1469. At least they give me an aisle seat. But, its just one row behind E+, so I can look at and drool over the E+ seats without actually sitting in one. I wonder if I will get a refund for the E+ upgrade fee.
The 9:20pm flight doesn't get going on time either. Finally about 9:40pm we push away from the gate. I listen to channel 9, which is on, for the moment. We taxi out to runway 17L in DEN. The pilot turns off channel 9 as they taxi around to the holding pad while they work out some problem -- they never tell us what that problem is. They leave channel 9 off during the take-off (a part I really like to hear), then turn it on after they get into the air.
There is no listing of what music they have on what channel. I finally find my music by surfing around. No idea what songs will be played in what order. I watch a little bit of the in-flight video (re-runs of TV shows and advertising for NBC). We arrive in Reno at 11pm local time, 4 hours behind my originally scheduled arrival, 2 hours behind when I could have been there with Southwest. (I checked, Southwest flew on time that day).
The next day I called UA to ask for my E+ upgrade refund. Can't process a refund for 3 days until all the data comes through. I call again on Thursday. This time they do promise to process the refund ($29). It takes 7-10 days to get a refund. What gives? Southwest processes a refund in 2-3 days. OK, do the best you can. I ask for a different refund on a different matter where I was promised not to be charged a $25 telephone fee for an open jaw award ticket (something you can book on-line at www.southwest.com). I was charged it anyway and the refund agent gave me the refund (still waiting to see it on my credit card).
So, in summary... UA can't get their pilots and equipment at the right place and right time. They can't be honest about their ability to correct their problems. They have poor communication about what remedies they will give when they can't fulfill their commitment to fly me from point A to point B. They don't know what misconnects they are going to have. The pilots won't keep channel 9 on to let us know what is going on. The refund process is a mess.
The GA told me that the Sunday and Friday flights from DEN to RNO and vice versa are always overbooked. Definately an opportunity for WN.
I arrived at the airport and walked down to the gate for UA/TED 1467, the 5:53pm departure DEN-RNO on July 13. The airplane was there. I thought great, except that seems like a poor utilization of equipment. Southwest would never have an aircraft sitting at the gate for more than a hour. Well, first reason that UA keeps losing money, I thought, but this should be good for me, at least the equipment was there. I went off to get some dinner.
I came back about 15 minutes before boarding and now the sign shows the flight as "delayed." Oh, here we go again with United, I thought. The aircraft was there, but the pilots were not. Turns out the pilots were stuck at Dulles. Again, this escapes me. Why not keep the aircraft and the pilots together throughout the day, like Southwest does? The GA announces that they are "searching for pilots." Here we are at United's hub (DEN) and they don't have A-320 pilots? Sad state of affairs.
They search for almost 2 hours and finally cancel the flight. The GA can't do anything for you, you have to go to their customer service center. Everybody takes off in a run. We stand in line for 30-45 minutes. By this time, the last flight for SFO has left, which could have connected me to RNO.
The CSC agents don't know anything about the RNO cancellation and have to check with the supervisor to find out if they can give hotel vouchers, even though the GA has promised them. Finally they give a hotel voucher. I ask about UA/TED 1469, the 9:20pm departure to RNO. The reply: Oh, that is overbooked, you will never get on that.
I go down to UA/TED 1469's gate anyway. With the problems from Dulles, there are at least 14 misconnects, meaning 14 open seats on 1469. I get on that flight. Thanks to my efforts, I saved United the cost of a hotel night. Do they give me anything for my efforts? Nope!
I paid for an E+ upgrade on UA/TED 1467 and they can't give me that on 1469. At least they give me an aisle seat. But, its just one row behind E+, so I can look at and drool over the E+ seats without actually sitting in one. I wonder if I will get a refund for the E+ upgrade fee.
The 9:20pm flight doesn't get going on time either. Finally about 9:40pm we push away from the gate. I listen to channel 9, which is on, for the moment. We taxi out to runway 17L in DEN. The pilot turns off channel 9 as they taxi around to the holding pad while they work out some problem -- they never tell us what that problem is. They leave channel 9 off during the take-off (a part I really like to hear), then turn it on after they get into the air.
There is no listing of what music they have on what channel. I finally find my music by surfing around. No idea what songs will be played in what order. I watch a little bit of the in-flight video (re-runs of TV shows and advertising for NBC). We arrive in Reno at 11pm local time, 4 hours behind my originally scheduled arrival, 2 hours behind when I could have been there with Southwest. (I checked, Southwest flew on time that day).
The next day I called UA to ask for my E+ upgrade refund. Can't process a refund for 3 days until all the data comes through. I call again on Thursday. This time they do promise to process the refund ($29). It takes 7-10 days to get a refund. What gives? Southwest processes a refund in 2-3 days. OK, do the best you can. I ask for a different refund on a different matter where I was promised not to be charged a $25 telephone fee for an open jaw award ticket (something you can book on-line at www.southwest.com). I was charged it anyway and the refund agent gave me the refund (still waiting to see it on my credit card).
So, in summary... UA can't get their pilots and equipment at the right place and right time. They can't be honest about their ability to correct their problems. They have poor communication about what remedies they will give when they can't fulfill their commitment to fly me from point A to point B. They don't know what misconnects they are going to have. The pilots won't keep channel 9 on to let us know what is going on. The refund process is a mess.
The GA told me that the Sunday and Friday flights from DEN to RNO and vice versa are always overbooked. Definately an opportunity for WN.
If it upsets you so much to fly UA, then so SW and be happy and stress free would ya?
PC
Jul 29, 2008, 2:55 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PDX
Programs: Alaska Airlines, CO Emeritus, United kettle, Ural Airlines Wings, Hilton, National
Posts: 979
hahaha... yeah everyone of these WN posts cracks me up. I have seen airline too. I always think back to it when I read one of these.
Jul 29, 2008, 4:16 pm
#20
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,686
UA wasn't going to win your business. I've seen your WN love notes before (which are fine...more power to you), but doesn't seem worth starting another WN is better thread.
Jul 29, 2008, 5:21 pm
#21
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 36000 Feet
Programs: UA GS, CO Plat. DL Silver, SPG Plat, Marriot Plat., HH Diamond, Hertz PC, many more
Posts: 309
Well, I would admit that it is a fact that a lot of UA pilots are calling in sick now to use up sick time before being furloughed. The pilots know pretty much based on their seniority how many rounds they will survive and they need to use their sick and vacation before hand. Sounds like there was weather in Dulles so that was the cause.
If you love WN so much, fly them. I'll be thinking of you in Mexico, Europe, Australia and Singapore with 32" pitch and 50 kids coming home from grandmas.
I would rather jam a carrot peeler up my nose and inhale salt than fly WN. I watch the flight boards in many airports and WN has their share of delays as well. Too bad you can't pass your time in those delays by sitting in the RCC.
If you love WN so much, fly them. I'll be thinking of you in Mexico, Europe, Australia and Singapore with 32" pitch and 50 kids coming home from grandmas.
I would rather jam a carrot peeler up my nose and inhale salt than fly WN. I watch the flight boards in many airports and WN has their share of delays as well. Too bad you can't pass your time in those delays by sitting in the RCC.
Jul 29, 2008, 5:36 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF (Bernal Heights)
Programs: UA GS 2 MM; , SPG Plat Amb/LTP, Marriott Gold, HH, Hertz Pres Circle
Posts: 172
insert carrot peeler...
lol...now that's a visual! and I'm not talking about the 50 kids, although I do know that feeling.
Jul 30, 2008, 4:42 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: LAS-DEN
Programs: WN CP & B-list. Disillusioned fmr UA-1P/2P,F9-Ascent; Fmr AA-Plat,CO-Gold,NW-Silver,TWA-Elite
Posts: 1,630
I'm not saying WN is perfect or that UA is terrible. This was one situation where UA's processes could significantly be improved to make it a profitable airline. Scheduling an aircraft from the west coast and a crew from the east coast, hoping they both meet in the middle is the issue. The complexity of doing that is what is running up their costs, a lot more than having magazines on flights, or giving free snacks.
Just because I fly on WN doesn't mean that I can't go to Mexico, HKG, Europe, etc. In this case, UA had the non-stop, WN didn't. I selected UA. I've been to HKG on CX and LHR on both AA and UA. (CX blows away UA, by the way).
UA got me there, just not very efficiently.
Just because I fly on WN doesn't mean that I can't go to Mexico, HKG, Europe, etc. In this case, UA had the non-stop, WN didn't. I selected UA. I've been to HKG on CX and LHR on both AA and UA. (CX blows away UA, by the way).
UA got me there, just not very efficiently.
Jul 30, 2008, 7:33 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SAN
Programs: AS MVP 100K, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Lifetime Titanium Elite, UA 1MM,
Posts: 1,712
I think you had a legitimate post until you started running the less-than-credible comparisons of UA and WN. As others have stated, there is way, way, way more to the differences between these carriers than you are outlining. Dont you think that if the plane/pilot pairing issues were the sole reason why UA is loosing money, they would have changed it? 
Since a WN plane often makes 1-2 stops before you get to your destination, adding on, as you said several hours to your trip, and so keeping the pilot with the plane makes sense. For the record, pilots are certified to fly one fleet type (with exception to the 757/767) and FAs can fly on all of them. They dont always have pilots "sitting around" waiting for your pilots to get delayed, but shuffling does occur. It looks like in this case, they did not have a pair available right then and there.
We really dont need any more WN vs. UA posts here, I think I speak for the majority when I say that they are getting boring. Post your UA comments here, or go hang in the Southwest forum.
Since a WN plane often makes 1-2 stops before you get to your destination, adding on, as you said several hours to your trip, and so keeping the pilot with the plane makes sense. For the record, pilots are certified to fly one fleet type (with exception to the 757/767) and FAs can fly on all of them. They dont always have pilots "sitting around" waiting for your pilots to get delayed, but shuffling does occur. It looks like in this case, they did not have a pair available right then and there. We really dont need any more WN vs. UA posts here, I think I speak for the majority when I say that they are getting boring. Post your UA comments here, or go hang in the Southwest forum.
Jul 31, 2008, 10:31 am
#25
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: Mileage Plus, Rapid Rewards
Posts: 949
And I'd reason a guess that even if UA had some sort of "no-show" agreement with its hotel providers it wouldn't be as punitive as "just any 'no show'".
Jul 31, 2008, 6:00 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 36000 Feet
Programs: UA GS, CO Plat. DL Silver, SPG Plat, Marriot Plat., HH Diamond, Hertz PC, many more
Posts: 309
I'm not sure that this is true, since I was once issued a voucher for the ORD Hyatt and when I showed up at the hotel, they were booked full. I think the voucher is only a promise to pay. I don't believe they make any sort of reservation when you are issued a ticket, though they may in some case check for availability.
And I'd reason a guess that even if UA had some sort of "no-show" agreement with its hotel providers it wouldn't be as punitive as "just any 'no show'".
And I'd reason a guess that even if UA had some sort of "no-show" agreement with its hotel providers it wouldn't be as punitive as "just any 'no show'".
Aug 2, 2008, 7:51 am
#27
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,275
that's 100 years' worth of being a 1K . How long did you fly them in order not to turn 1K?What am I reading wrong here
?
Aug 2, 2008, 11:19 am
#28
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: AA Exec Plat
Posts: 122
Aug 4, 2008, 3:07 pm
#29
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: LAS-DEN
Programs: WN CP & B-list. Disillusioned fmr UA-1P/2P,F9-Ascent; Fmr AA-Plat,CO-Gold,NW-Silver,TWA-Elite
Posts: 1,630
Refunds
Why is it that UA can charge my credit card within 48 hours of making a purchase, but when I request and have a refund approved, it takes over 2 weeks (and still counting) to have that refund show up on my credit card?
Aug 4, 2008, 3:10 pm
#30
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 79
Different departments charged with different responsibilities and different timelines. Kinda sucks, but I've found that most of the travel industry is like that. Quick to charge, slow to chargeback.