Advice: Possible response to weird, bad experience at SFO int'l first class lounge
May 26, 2005, 4:07 pm
#46
Moderator: Midwest, Las Vegas & Dining Buzz
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 17,985
Originally Posted by Wiggums
UA clearly says paid or award "F," not Upgraded - even by certs or $$ or miles. That rule's been very clear and I have been Op-Up'd to F, but never used the International First because the rules are already explicit.
You can pay to upgrade your "C" to "F," but that in no way entitles you to the use of the First International lounge.
You can pay to upgrade your "C" to "F," but that in no way entitles you to the use of the First International lounge.
May 26, 2005, 4:12 pm
#47
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deleted. already addressed in thread.
May 26, 2005, 4:25 pm
#48
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The most weird thing about the situation is that if you inverted the sequence
of upgrading, you would have saved cash and the Cerberi could not have
complained.
You did SWU:Y-C, cash:C-F.
with cash: Y-C, SWU:C-F
You would have had an ordinary NF BP and save quite some money.
Worth a try to get past the lounge nannies.
of upgrading, you would have saved cash and the Cerberi could not have
complained.
You did SWU:Y-C, cash:C-F.
with cash: Y-C, SWU:C-F
You would have had an ordinary NF BP and save quite some money.
Worth a try to get past the lounge nannies.
May 26, 2005, 4:38 pm
#49
Join Date: Sep 2004
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,159
2 of 4 times allowed entrance
There is a "matron" at SFO Arrivals when on duty has allowed me in with a Y ticket upgraded to C. Offcourse these Y tickets have been full fare upgraded with SWU. First time I just stated "I know that I'm not suppose to be here but I really liked it the last time I was here when I was on Full Fare C and Paid F. Do you think I could come in again?" She said, "I'm not suppose to but I remember you from the last couple of times. Welcome Mr. Peter Parker" I have used the same speech two other times with different matrons there and I was DENIED. I just said thank you and smiled.
Maybe it is my sunny disposition.
Maybe it is my sunny disposition.
May 26, 2005, 4:58 pm
#50
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Originally Posted by iluv2fly
If you are saying a C or D to F (via miles or SWU or sales upgrade) is not allowed into Int'l F Lounge, you are totally wrong. These pax are entitled to entry (and not subsequent removal).
My boss bought First, I bought "C" and used SWU to upgrade, but was denied access to the lounge on a SFO-FRA trip. However, they gave us an "exception" since I was the guest of my boss.
May 26, 2005, 5:08 pm
#51
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As to the original post, "Outrageous!"
@:-)
I am very interested in obtaining a copy of this profile, too.
Link?
The bottom line cause of so many of these problems is that UA "hides" the rules on the excuse of their being proprietary, or for "competitive reasons, or some such rationalization. (In the meantime, is there a FlyerTalk link to the Upgrade for Cash profile, or the First Class Lounge admittance profile?)
The rules should be open to the customers!
(Likewise, passengers should be able to pull up a tariff display for a given city pair.)
Originally Posted by weero
The most weird thing about the situation is that if you inverted the sequence of upgrading, you would have saved cash and the Cerberi could not have complained.
You did SWU:Y-C, cash:C-F.
With cash: Y-C, SWU:C-F
You would have had an ordinary NF BP and saved quite some money.
Worth a try to get past the lounge nannies.
You did SWU:Y-C, cash:C-F.
With cash: Y-C, SWU:C-F
You would have had an ordinary NF BP and saved quite some money.
Worth a try to get past the lounge nannies.
Originally Posted by Starman
I wasn't aware that the UFC rules explicitly state that XC/NC is an allowable fare basis! Where can I find this written down somewhere??
Originally Posted by JC5280
All revenue/award tickets are eligible, except NC. It clearly states this in UA's profile. The OP was incorrectly given the upgrade . . . .
Originally Posted by WindFlyer
If, from the matron's perpective, an agent made mistake in offering an UFC to an NC pax, she should punish the agent, not the customer (if she is going to take it upon herself to "punish" someone). I would make this point in my communications with UA.
The bottom line cause of so many of these problems is that UA "hides" the rules on the excuse of their being proprietary, or for "competitive reasons, or some such rationalization. (In the meantime, is there a FlyerTalk link to the Upgrade for Cash profile, or the First Class Lounge admittance profile?)
The rules should be open to the customers!
(Likewise, passengers should be able to pull up a tariff display for a given city pair.)
May 26, 2005, 5:12 pm
#52
Moderator: Midwest, Las Vegas & Dining Buzz
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 17,985
Originally Posted by Wiggums
I have sent them an e-mail. "Do I have access to First International lounges on a Business class ticket that is upgraded to First class using a Systemwide Upgrade?"
My boss bought First, I bought "C" and used SWU to upgrade, but was denied access to the lounge on a SFO-FRA trip. However, they gave us an "exception" since I was the guest of my boss.
My boss bought First, I bought "C" and used SWU to upgrade, but was denied access to the lounge on a SFO-FRA trip. However, they gave us an "exception" since I was the guest of my boss.
They were wrong. Most of my business trips to Europe are on a C ticket upgraded with a Sales Upgrade Certificate. They know I am coming since my name is on their list for that day's pax who they are expecting in the lounge. You "exception" was actually not even an exception at all - a pax is ENTITLED to one guest in the F lounge - I have brought a guest in with me (not flying in F) at different times before.
Let us know what the response is.
May 26, 2005, 5:25 pm
#53
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I really thought I wasn't entitled to First International in SFO. I have only been in the LAX and LHR ones. In LHR, I was in Air New Zealand First Class LHR-LAX and they even had a lady in the LHR RCC apparently from Air NZ (with that green outfit and a thingy on one side, dunno what the name is). Never had problems.
That SFO-FRA trip... it was the first time I tried to get in on an upgraded "C" ticket, not an award "F" ticket. I know for a fact I can get in on Award "F" tickets, but they mentioned that the upgrade makes it a no-no. I am anxious to hear what the response is and I will be sure to post it here.
That SFO-FRA trip... it was the first time I tried to get in on an upgraded "C" ticket, not an award "F" ticket. I know for a fact I can get in on Award "F" tickets, but they mentioned that the upgrade makes it a no-no. I am anxious to hear what the response is and I will be sure to post it here.
May 26, 2005, 5:33 pm
#54
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Originally Posted by RichardMEL
Incidentally while I found the lounge nice - saying it is the "jewel" in the UA system is a bit of an overstatement I think. Yes, it's big. Yes, it has comfy chairs. Yes, it had Moet on ice, and self serve bar... but the food options weren't great and you certainly can't compare it to other lounges out there (eg: SQ F @ SIN, London Lounge, etc). Just my 2 cents on that though.
All the things you do agree with, make the other UA lounges pale into insignificance pretty much, not to mention the quite superb and tasteful Feng-Shuid Asian decor, and lack of crowds etc. And not to mention the excellent "Arrivals" type shower facilities out back.
I never said it was better than any airline lounge on earth. We all know United will never lay claim to that award. But boy this one is right up there with them.
May 26, 2005, 5:37 pm
#55
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nor Cal
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Posts: 537
Originally Posted by Lurker
Thanks Marin for that explanation. Indeed it does sound like we were lucky to (incorrectly) get a pass from the RCC agents at the front door who simply saw the F boarding pass and issued the Arrivals invitation. I agree too with many here regarding the OP's situaiton and with SeaTig regarding our situation that once an error such as this is made it is how it is handled that matters.
It creates more illwill to retract it and escort people around like criminals than to say:
"Mr/s FF, our agents made an error today. Your fare class would not normally permit you access to this section. However, we value your business and we will honor our mistake today. Please enjoy the loungfe on this occasion".
This latter outcome creates a win-win situation since it creates goodwill rather than illwill and, as Oz points out, some people may even change their flying patterns as a result of the goodwill created. It also makes it clear that this is an exception based on a staff error and that it should not be expected again.
Lurker
It creates more illwill to retract it and escort people around like criminals than to say:
"Mr/s FF, our agents made an error today. Your fare class would not normally permit you access to this section. However, we value your business and we will honor our mistake today. Please enjoy the loungfe on this occasion".
This latter outcome creates a win-win situation since it creates goodwill rather than illwill and, as Oz points out, some people may even change their flying patterns as a result of the goodwill created. It also makes it clear that this is an exception based on a staff error and that it should not be expected again.
Lurker
May 26, 2005, 6:11 pm
#56
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Indianapolis; UA 1P; Hilton and SPG Gold
Posts: 439
One slight problem...
Originally Posted by zrs70
Boy, this is annoying. Here's what I would do if this ever happens again:
Get your cell phone out and call reservations. Purchase a new refundable international F ticket to anywhere. Check in. Get your boarding pass. Go into the lounge. Cancell the ticket. Get a refund.
Get your cell phone out and call reservations. Purchase a new refundable international F ticket to anywhere. Check in. Get your boarding pass. Go into the lounge. Cancell the ticket. Get a refund.
The matrons will cancel your other ticket. If they're as vindictive and rigid as they sound, then if you book and check-in for another flight, they will cancel your other reservation as you clearly cannot take two flights at the same time. Even if you book an F seat on the same flight, I bet they'll still cancel your other seat so it can be given to someone else. Then you'd be stuck with paying either the full F fare or not taking the flight after all.
May 27, 2005, 3:07 am
#57
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OK, I wrote 1kvoice and suggested that fair recompense would be to reinstate the two SWU's I used on this trip. Indeed, I think that is reasonable. This is the first complaint letter I have written to United in a long time where I have asked for something, but this time I believe the actions by the folks in the first class lounge were beyond the bounds of acceptable behavior -- and bad for both me and United.
I'll report back what the response is. Thanks for everyone's comments, without them I would not have written.
I'll report back what the response is. Thanks for everyone's comments, without them I would not have written.
Last edited by RichardInSF; May 27, 2005 at 3:09 am
May 27, 2005, 4:56 am
#58
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Ah yes, well I guess I focused on the UA lounge part of ozstamp's statement. I glossed over in the "UA" system comment Personally I feel the UA F lounge in LHR (complete with Butler) is pretty nice, but I guess that SFO asian decor didn't do it for me Also I guess I have been spoiled by trying SQ and the others.
Personally I feel the UA F lounge in LHR (complete with Butler) is pretty nice, but I guess that SFO asian decor didn't do it for me Also I guess I have been spoiled by trying SQ and the others.
May 27, 2005, 8:03 am
#59
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Originally Posted by cyber1k
How to win on this one: In the future, ask to speak directly with the city's station manager. Explain and charm them. That person has the most authority and does not work in the dmv meets denny's union mentality. You are more likely to a have a positive outcome. F woulda' been so nice!
May 27, 2005, 9:40 am
#60
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I thought I would chime in here. As a former Customer Service Manager for one of UA's competitors, now turned Customer of both UA and my former employer, I've got to tell you that reading this just made the 3 hairs on my head stand up.
Frankly, it does not matter whether or not you were upgraded improperly. The facts are that you were upgraded, and they even took your money for the privilege. The humiliation from the F lounge and the big show about the whole thing just makes me mad for you!
I would most definitely share this experience with United. If they don't respond to your satisfaction, write them and tell them so, and cc the Dept. of Transportation as well. Not that they will care, but it might get someone's attention at UA to and at least let the know you are serious. This is just bad. They screw up and then blame the customer for it. The right way to handle this would've been to say "Oh, I'm sorry Mr. RichardSF. We really aren't supposed to do double upgrades such as yours, we goofed. Now we're not going to take that upgrade back, of course. But we just don't want you to be surprised if at some point in the future you ask about a similar upgrade and are told that it isn't supposed to be done. I hope you enjoy your flight in F! And thank you for flying United."
Frankly, it does not matter whether or not you were upgraded improperly. The facts are that you were upgraded, and they even took your money for the privilege. The humiliation from the F lounge and the big show about the whole thing just makes me mad for you!
I would most definitely share this experience with United. If they don't respond to your satisfaction, write them and tell them so, and cc the Dept. of Transportation as well. Not that they will care, but it might get someone's attention at UA to and at least let the know you are serious. This is just bad. They screw up and then blame the customer for it. The right way to handle this would've been to say "Oh, I'm sorry Mr. RichardSF. We really aren't supposed to do double upgrades such as yours, we goofed. Now we're not going to take that upgrade back, of course. But we just don't want you to be surprised if at some point in the future you ask about a similar upgrade and are told that it isn't supposed to be done. I hope you enjoy your flight in F! And thank you for flying United."