Biship,

Space available and upgrade space available are two entirely different things. If there is upgrade inventory available at time of request with miles you get it no matter status, no status, etc. If there is no upgrade space available at time of request even us 1K's have to wait. Just because there are seats empty on a flight does not mean they are avaiable for upgrading into.

You've mentioned "free upgrades" a couple of times and I have to say that I am a status member and have never gotten a free upgrade, in the past seven years. That is to say, I've had to 'pay' for all of my upgrades with certificates or miles.

I've got no problem with the current upgrade waitlist procedures and even though it would personally be to my disadvantage, I could understand if fare paid was the first tie breaker, followed by status level, then the time added to the DM list, as UA does need to focus a lot of their benefits on the higher revenue flyer.

Biship,

I don't know how often you fly with UA. I have been a 1K for 9 years and I am even UGS for 2003. BTW, UGS is the highest status for UAL as it is a UAL status level that supercedes Mileage Plus. That said, I have only been offered 2 op upgrades this year, both due to somebody at reservations changing my confirmed E+/bulkhead/aisle seat that was confirmed on my receipt and moved me in the back of the bus in a middle seat. Otherwise, I don't get comp upgrades as often as you might think. This may sound harsh but if you want waivers for favors fly more on UA metal and maybe you will get them. Oh yea, UAL doesn't do this anymore, as the execs at WHQ have been harshly critical to the CSRs regarding this, behind the scenes. Sorry, UAL (and all airline FF programs) is not the Rose Garden the infrequent traveler thinks they are.

I'm often told that psgrs on "free tickets" aren't allowed the same amenities as those on paid tickets during an IRR OPS situation (mech. delay or cxl).
How "free" is an award ticket?

What routes are you trying to upgrade on? Even months in advance, on some routes (especially international), they waitlist even when 9+ seats show available (ask even 1Ks who fly NRT-BKK about this).

UA will always reserve some seats for last-minute full-fare customers. I imagine on flights served by Airbus planes they may keep (at least) four seats open in case an A320 (with 12 seats) is swapped with an A319 which only has 8. On more than one occasion I have been the #9-12 waitlist on an A320 flight only to see an A319 sitting at the gate and I know it is my original E+ bulkhead seat for me.

I've used miles months in advance and gotten a confirmed seat many times. And there have been many times when I was waitlisted. Most times it clears, but there are times it does not. Just depends on the route.

In cases of Operational Upgrades (when someone is upgraded one class for free), it is because Economy is overbooked and they have empty seats in First Class that nobody is waiting for. UA will not deny an upgrade from Economy to First to put an elite into the seat for free, since that upgrade will fill the seat. Has nothing to do with status. I am a mid-tier (Premiere Executive) and I've sat in the middle seat in the back row because that was the only seat available - and I got it because the sucker who had my seat had an upgrade request into First clear.

That mirrors what I was told. Last winter I called the 1P line the day before departure...well past the window for 1P upgrades to have cleared and there appeared to be F seats available for sale...just inquiring as to possibility for the UG. During the discussion the agent reminded me that if I'd wanted to be assured of the upgrade (assuming upgradeable seats were available) then I should have used miles to secure it at the time I purchase my ticket instead of taking my chances by using my 500-milers. (My UG ended up clearing at the gate.)

[This message has been edited by cawhite60156 (edited 06-02-2003).]

Also, re "free upgrades"...whenever the elusive operational upgrade does happen (and it doesn't happen often in my case as a 1P)...I would certainly hope that UA or any other airline would put one of their higher level frequent fliers (UGS/1K/1P,2P) in a F seat rather than someone who is only sitting in their planes a couple times/year (and yes, I'm on a UA aircraft at least 2 RT's per month -- it would be more if I could give them all myh corporate business).


[This message has been edited by cawhite60156 (edited 06-02-2003).]

Unfortunately, I found this out to be true....the hard way.

When I worked for UA from 1995-2000, we used to treat XF tickets on a higher priority than NF tickets.....well those days are long gone.

Currently, NF tickets are a HIGHER priority than the "free" XF tickets.

For example, I booked two XF tickets for me and my Mom back in Sep 2002 to go from SFO to ANC this July 4th weekend. I confirmed and got it E-Ticketed.

However, UA downsized the aircraft from a B757 to an A320. Guess who ended up without seats? We didn't have seats anymore and were flat out denied any other options other than taking a different flight on a different day or standing by for FC on the day of departure.

They said that the "paid" upgraded tickets are first and our "free" tickets are bottom priority.

What the ****! The 80,000 miles that I flew with UA, even when they were on the verge of bankruptcy are not "free" miles. The amount of money that my company spent, in addition to my personal travel, were treated with total disregard by UA....I was very disappointed by the way they handled this.

Oh well, we ended up getting two FC tickets on AS through Seattle and just got a refund for our UA flights....



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SFnFlaGuy

biship ..... you seem to miss the most obvious point.

We are talking DM lists here.

By definition there is NOT a DM list until the flight in under airport control, which is always a few hours before scheduled departure.

At that point as most above have pointed out, there are 3 things only that come into play, plus time added to DM list if a tie breaker is needed. Agent does not care if you are "paying" for UG with a SWU, a HK49, 500 milers, a CS bluey, sales Dept upgrade, a note from God, or miles ...... all those animals are EQUAL at that point. Status is king at this time.

Your STATUS and TICKET class is clearly the deal breaker most times.

BEFORE the day of flight ... sure a SWU or HK49 will whup 500 milers or 24 hour Sales Dept certs etc, each and every time. And you know why? United ONLY give SWU and HK49 to the heaviest flyers. Seems fair to me.

FTR, I stopped writing those notes a while ago.

But only after Revenue Protection kept asking why you signed them GODDD.

Which raises the question....

How early can I go out and check in at the airport (for an international trip) to tip that tie-breaker in my favor?

Thanks in advance

Lurker

For sometimes now, I have known the official criteria for waitlist orders are:

1.Status
2. Fare paid
3. Time added to DM list

This is true in the US airport from my personal experience.

I have also posted the following experience in another thread:

I requested for C upgrade 3 days before my HKG-ORD flight, and was told there were 10 other 1Ks on the C upgrade list. On the date of travel, I got to the airport late, and was told no one has clear the waitlist. There were 36 1Ks on the waitlist at the time I checked in. I asked the agent what were the criteria in selecting which 1K get to sit in C in case seats became available. Agent told me: "the 1K who joined MP the earliest will get the nod".

At the gate, I was the fortunate 1K who got the C upgrade out of the 36 1Ks on the list.
I checked with the gate agent about the criteria, and was told I was selected because I was in MP longer than others.


Before that particular flight, I had only accumulated less than 10,000 YTD miles. I paid Q fare on that flight, and I was the 11th 1K to add on to the waitlist. I joined MP in 1991.

Obviously, UA-HKG seems to follow a different set of rules! Anyone has similar experience at UA's international locations?

One of my 1K colleageues told me about five years ago that an international station (I think NRT) used status miles (I think prior year as opposed to YTD) as the tie breaker instead of time added to the DM list for two 1Ks otherwise equal on the upgrade list with only one seat open.

At the time, domestic stations were already following the DM system. I don't know anything more current.

Charles