ExpertFlyer no longer offering *A award/upgrade inventory data/alerts? Alternatives?
Oct 7, 2023, 2:34 pm
#31
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,285
I think trying to prevent use of instruments and awards (via web scraping) is directly the cause of the many issues with regular people trying to do simple searches and getting blocked.
They would rather make lose some customers from not being able to book on their site than let people actually redeem awards and instruments.
The customers they care about (big corporate spenders) all use agencies vs UAs website anyways
They would rather make lose some customers from not being able to book on their site than let people actually redeem awards and instruments.
The customers they care about (big corporate spenders) all use agencies vs UAs website anyways
Oct 7, 2023, 2:54 pm
#32
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA LT Plat 2MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,995
Airline have long protected their sites / information being monetized by unauthorized third parties. Airlines are far from the only group to do this.
The use of third party sites give a small minority an advantage over most and makes the system look further "rigged".
Yes, protecting the site from unauthorized uses will tend to create some problems for authorized users.
The use of third party sites give a small minority an advantage over most and makes the system look further "rigged".
Yes, protecting the site from unauthorized uses will tend to create some problems for authorized users.
Oct 7, 2023, 3:14 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
Oct 7, 2023, 4:08 pm
#34
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,299
Given basically every commercial website has similar terms of use covenants, including ExpertFlyer itself, it would be quite substantial for many companies if it turns out their website terms aren’t legally enforceable..
Oct 7, 2023, 5:49 pm
#35
Join Date: Sep 2023
Posts: 184
It is simply not possible. There is simply no legal basis for any decision which would find those ToC unenforceable.
Oct 7, 2023, 6:09 pm
#36
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
Oct 7, 2023, 6:33 pm
#37
Join Date: Sep 2023
Posts: 184
Here we are talking about something completely different, moreover, we are only dealing with future (Airlines do not seek any damages for past violations). Any deficiencies with verbiage could be cured overnight.
Most notably, the court did not find that ToC are unenforceable because users did not explicitly signed into them (as someone above implied), but they are simply not clear enough for such a profound decision.
A bit of trivia - 9th circuit is the one which decisions are most commonly overturned.
Last edited by vicontt; Oct 7, 2023 at 6:38 pm
Oct 7, 2023, 6:49 pm
#38
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
Unrelated. This case is about waving a certain right (a right to file class action lawsuit) and the decision implied that the verbiage of a waver was uncler.
Here we are talking about something completely different, moreover, we are only dealing with future (Airlines do not seek any damages for past violations). Any deficiencies with verbiage could be cured overnight.
Most notably, the court did not find that ToC are unenforceable because users did not explicitly signed into them (as someone above implied), but they are simply not clear enough for such a profound decision.
A bit of trivia - 9th circuit is the one which decisions are most commonly overturned.
Here we are talking about something completely different, moreover, we are only dealing with future (Airlines do not seek any damages for past violations). Any deficiencies with verbiage could be cured overnight.
Most notably, the court did not find that ToC are unenforceable because users did not explicitly signed into them (as someone above implied), but they are simply not clear enough for such a profound decision.
A bit of trivia - 9th circuit is the one which decisions are most commonly overturned.
He would conclude that under recent decisions of the
California Court of Appeal, defendants’ websites contained
“sign-in wrap” agreements, which fall within a gray zone in
which enforceability requires conspicuous textual notice that
completing a transaction or registration signifies consent to
the site’s terms and conditions. Under this standard,
defendants’ notices were insufficiently conspicuous and
were not unambiguously tied to some act of the website user
that manifested assent to the site’s terms and conditions.
Accordingly, defendants’ sign-in wrap agreements were not
enforceable
California Court of Appeal, defendants’ websites contained
“sign-in wrap” agreements, which fall within a gray zone in
which enforceability requires conspicuous textual notice that
completing a transaction or registration signifies consent to
the site’s terms and conditions. Under this standard,
defendants’ notices were insufficiently conspicuous and
were not unambiguously tied to some act of the website user
that manifested assent to the site’s terms and conditions.
Accordingly, defendants’ sign-in wrap agreements were not
enforceable
Oct 7, 2023, 6:57 pm
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
Programs: UA Silver, Hilton Silver. Life: UA .57 MM, United & Admirals Clubs (spousal), Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,140
As vicontt has pointed out, there is a difference between retrospective and prospective application. Also, Berman v. Freedom Fin. Network, 30 F.4th 849 (9th Cir. 2022) involved consumers, whereas this controversy involves business to business (B2B) transactions.
As someone who has never subscribed to ExpertFlyer (EF), I hope UA can improve their award search capability for all.
As someone who has never subscribed to ExpertFlyer (EF), I hope UA can improve their award search capability for all.
Last edited by SPN Lifer; Oct 7, 2023 at 7:05 pm
Oct 7, 2023, 7:01 pm
#40
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,299
Though I have to imagine, sending a cease and desist notice (or multiple) that specifically points out the terms and conditions clauses that are being violated, would serve as sufficient notice, preceding a lawsuit over the violations should the behavior continue. Which is why I think the previous replier says those cases aren't necessarily relevant to a case over if the terms of use are enforceable or not - sufficient notice/disclosure of the terms aren't the issue here.
Oct 7, 2023, 7:31 pm
#41
Join Date: Sep 2023
Posts: 184
Unfortunately, I remain skeptical about this bit. Color me cynical, but I don't expect airlines to act for the benefit of their customers here. We'll see.
Oct 8, 2023, 8:12 am
#43
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 75
This very disappointing to me, as I am a frequent traveler of UA and don't live to far from EWR. EF really helped me out with the alerts feature as it saved so much time having to search manually for saver award availability. What is the best approach moving forward to locate saver awards? Is it suggested to check the UA's site a few times a week? I am planning to go to Vegas next year, so I have some time, but the dates I am looking at do not have savers available yet.
I'm also a little hesitant to keep checking the airlines website as our browsers report cookies to them, and this may alert their systems that someone keeps searching a specific route and date
I'm also a little hesitant to keep checking the airlines website as our browsers report cookies to them, and this may alert their systems that someone keeps searching a specific route and date
Oct 8, 2023, 8:50 am
#44
Join Date: Sep 2023
Posts: 184
On the other hand, EF (or any other website participating in google ads) - those will have your personal data sliced, diced, salted to perfection and sold to the highest bidder. So if privacy is a concern, UA website is millions times safer.
Oct 8, 2023, 9:18 am
#45
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bellingham/Gainesville
Programs: UA-G MM, Priority Club Platinum, Avis First, Hertz 5*, Red Lion
Posts: 2,808
This is what UA wants you to do. They also want you to fail.
Trust me, UA doesn't need any cookies for that - you are already logging in with your MP number. There is also not much they would do with those details.
On the other hand, EF (or any other website participating in google ads) - those will have your personal data sliced, diced, salted to perfection and sold to the highest bidder. So if privacy is a concern, UA website is millions times safer.
Trust me, UA doesn't need any cookies for that - you are already logging in with your MP number. There is also not much they would do with those details.
On the other hand, EF (or any other website participating in google ads) - those will have your personal data sliced, diced, salted to perfection and sold to the highest bidder. So if privacy is a concern, UA website is millions times safer.
and no UA's site is not safer. EF has 5 outside domains, UA is reporting out to 13. so it's worse by a factor of 2.6.