Aussienarelle

I may be missing something but aren't the biometrics from the passport already used for checkin with United?

I prefer the biometric usage for Global Entry and CLEAR so no issues personally with the same at the gate.

gfunkdave

No idea, though it certainly confirms they have access to it - I don't know how they've used biometrics in the past. Aside from the "Big Brother" feeling of it, most of my objection is that it just took longer.

dmurphynj

I realize I'm (very) late to the thread but I had a similar experience with US CBP this spring after a Royal Caribbean cruise. It worked amazingly well.

I would very much like to see this implemented for airline boarding - would speed the entire process up, especially for int'l flights where passport scans have already taken place at checkin. Simply can't express just how pleasant it made the entire CBP experience -- even compared to the typical Global Entry process, this was more expedient.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-m...rt-new-orleans

fumje

Is it certain that the biometrics originated from the passport used at check-in for that flight? (It might be the case — I don't know the answer.) And are they retained for some period afterward or used only for that flight? (Another case of I simply don't know.)

I share some of others' discomfort with these, mainly because I don't know where the information they're using comes from and where it goes once they've used it. The notices that I've seen at the gate aren't very detailed or specific about that.

One thing I have observed is that when a flight is fairly full, partway through boarding the gate agents might get fed up with how long the biometrics are taking and switch over to BP scanning. So out of the handful of times I've encountered the biometric scanners, I have wound up avoiding them sometimes by boarding late. However, I have no idea if this does anything to limit sharing of whatever biometric data they have.

All of that is to say that I think the main source of creepiness is lack of explanation about how I am being recognised by the machine, i.e. where did they get my photo and what do they do with my photo after scanning me.

dmurphynj

Wholly understood, but my thinking is that if I've got a passport, or even a drivers' license, I'm already in a governmental biometric database. That data isn't going away, well, pretty much ever, so it doesn't really bug me. But I understand how it could and would be bothersome for others -- especially for folks who aren't US citizens and thus wouldn't be in the same databases I am. That data should be handled much more sensitively.

lincolnjkc

UA attempted to use this to board an IAD-EDI on Saturday with me as the first passenger to board... it tried capturing my face 3-4 times before the agent gave up, logged the tablet out and just scanned my boarding pass. Based on the preboarding announcements it wasn't clear if this was an "optional" or mandatory thing -- I thought I had heard before that US citizens (at least) could opt out but I didn't feel like pushing that... my biometrics are in enough places as it is (not the least of which are CLEAR and Global Entry) that I don't find it a huge philosophical problem but I know others who are more sensitive about those things have stronger feelings.

Aussienarelle

Bizarrely in other contexts if you have teeth showing apparently there can be an issue so you need to ensure your mouth is closed. Also, skin color can be an issue - apparently darker skin can be difficult for facial recognition.

lincolnjkc

Funny you should say that -- it seemed like it was just randomly taking pictures including one where my lips were closed and (according to my wife) "making the perfect meh face if (she has) ever seen one"... I'm on the pretty pale end of the spectrum but I know skin tone/color has been a challenge for a lot of AI models based on the training sets.

At some point it will probably be prime-time ready -- heck, look at how quickly I can buzz through an airport with CLEAR -- there have been a few flights recent where I've cut things uncomfortably close and literally have not stopped moving for more than 5-10 seconds between arriving at the door to the terminal and sitting down in my assigned seat...or using the E-Gates at a UK/EU border but it seems that this iteration isn't quite there yet.

Doppy

Anyone who enters the country legally, at least by air, has already given their biometrics (aka face photo) to CBP when they entered the country, so these cameras are not collecting anything new.

https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...rnational.html

VRFast

They tried doing this at IAH for our flight 880 to LHR on Monday 9/5. Had a good view of it since we were pretty close in the Group 1 line. They started with the pre-boarders, and it took at least 3-5 min per person. Getting the camera to take a picture (yes it seems like it was taking pictures at random times), then scanning BP, bla bla bla. After about 20 min, before even the 1Ks started, they called it off. Thanks for doing that GA (one of the GA ladies had enough of it and called it off), it would have taken 2 hours to board everyone using that thing, which was basically our connection time at LHR.
Scanning BP and showing passport takes long enough, let’s stick with that.

BZRORG

Same for IAD-AMM on 9/5. Although I saw cbp biometric scanning optional signage other gates, didnt see any at C3. GA had his iphone covering the BP scanner, and when I challenged him that i did not want my picture taken, reluctantly backed down after trying to make it seem like he was doing me a favor by letting me scan my boarding pass. I think most (if not all) the C gates for international departures have the camera, i know UA has used them for flights to LHR and FRA (from personal experience)

dmurphynj

Sure, but I don't know (and haven't investigated) what happens to that data - how it's handled, where it's stored, and for what duration. I would think it's stored and handled differently than US citizen data.

As a US citizen, I just assume I'm in their databases for eternity plus a day. Scott McNealy was right, all those years ago: https://www.wired.com/1999/01/sun-on...y-get-over-it/

username

I experienced this flying out of SFO a week ago. The crazy thing was the GA said they would need to scan the face and it sounded mandatory. However, one of the machines did not work. So, people who lined up on that one did not do it.

Since I had never heard of it (I have not been on FT too much), I was wondering if it was a US thing, a UA thing or a destination immigration thing. We were all scratching our heads when it knew who we were without scanning the BP or PP.

The crazy thing is that imagine if this was a flight to China, I wonder how many people might think it is a China thing and get stressed over it.

Doppy

The UA link for the CBP program (as opposed to the domestic UA program) says UA doesn't keep the data and it only goes to CBP.

Who knows if that's true, but since your face will have been recorded on 1000 cameras at the airport already, as a practical matter, I'm not sure there's a lot of additional privacy loss.

DELee

"Hey, you missed my good side again!"

David