miles_navigator

How do I see the difference between what is in the reservation and what is actually ticketed on partner airlines; especially from the point of view of the partner/metal operating the flight? I have been at this game a long time and there is always something to learn. I got bitten with this situation 2 years in a row now with a slight variance each time so reaching out to ask the experts and hoping to learn something. I am posting this thread on the UA forum because I don’t know where else to post it and both situations involved UA but in a different capacity each time. Moderator feel free to move it if necessary.



Case 1: 2022/ UA issued award ticket w/ 1 segment travel on Croatia Airlines (OU).

Background:

• Booked round trip UA award ticket US to Europe w/ both open-jaw and stop-over.
• 1 segment operated by Croatia Airlines (OU).
• Segment was ZAG to DUB when ticket was originally issued.
• Segment changed to SPU to DUB (different originating city) 2 months before departure. Flight number stayed the same. OU stopped operating the ZAG to DUB non-stop over the summer.
• UA sent an email with the change and everything looked fine.
• Checked w/ OU record locator on their web-site and everything looks good, flights changed.
• We were on 2 separate record locators (#1 w/ me and the kids since we were doing a stop-over in DUB, and #2 w/ mrs miles_navigator only connect in DUB to go back to USA that day).
• FYI: SPU airport (and other airports in Croatia) uses a common company to handle all check-in for all their flights across multiple carriers.

The fun part starts:

• Go to online check on OU web-site, and I check in fine and so does mrs and we get boarding cards over the computer. Kids told that ticket number error.
• Call OU local number and they say the ticket number is no attached to the SPU to DUB flight and they ask me to ask United to reissue ticket for the kids.
• I call UA after wicked long hold time (so much for my last day of vacation) and told everything looks fine/ok to UA.
• Call back OU and they said get to airport and they will take care of it but lady says the reservation shows SPU to DUB but it kids are still ticketed as ZAG to DUB.
• Get to SPU airport, check-in agent says same thing send me to OU ticket counter.
• OU ticket counter prints me kids flights and it does indeed show ZAG to DUB (instead of SPU to DUB) but says Status OK. Ticket numbers are attached.
• 45 mins to departure time now. I tell mrs to go board so she can make the flight and be home in US that evening to work the next day and I will figure out how to get to DUB w/ kids. Talk about stress for mrs.
• SPU check in agent argues with OU ticket counter lady (after my instance on not being the middle) in Croatian so I don’t understand what is going on. OU ticket counter lady doesn’t do anything. Check in agent goes into the back disappears, comes back and w/ 20mins left before departure prints out correct SPU to DUB boarding cards for the kids
• We race and barely made the flight, mainly because they were running late, and it was really stressful.

Question: How do I see what is ticketed (not the reservation view) from the carrier’s perspective. What could I have done to get ahead of this well before leaving home?

I would say it was user error on part of the SPU check in agent but the OU call center also told me the tickets weren’t issued probably (but they pointed back to UA as ticket issuers to fix it).



Case 2: 2021/ SQ issued award ticket to fly on UA metal

Background:

• Was burning some SQ miles, due to their crappy expiration policy, to fly UA metal from SFO to OGG. Yeah, I know it is not optimal use of points from west coast.
• Booked on last SFO to OGG UA flight which got scheduled changed and flight was last flight was landing around 9pmish HST now.
• As trip got closer we got stressed about rental car fiasco being reported. Had mini-van reserved for 5 of us but knew they can easily say sorry all we have is a Mustang convertible, take it or leave it. Recall people were renting U-hauls to have a rental car that summer.
• Decided to kill the stop-over and SFO (using points from another airline) and change the SQ award ticket to get on the non-stop UA flight from EWR to OGG for the same number of points.
• Persuaded SQ agent to waive change fee due to schedule change on UA’s end. They reissued the ticket under the same record locator (and I assume ticket numbers).
• Called SQ back days later to confirm ticket is good for EWR to OGG and told yes.
• UA app/record locator showed EWR to OGG along w/ seats selected.

Fun begins:

• Didn’t do UA online check in (mistake # 1).
• Get to EWR airport and can’t check in at kiosk. Chase down a human and told ticket is issued SFO to OGG and not EWR to OGG even though that is what I see on UA app.
• Story story (but had a lot of drama): UA agent calls her UA help desk (after long hold) who call SQ desk and I think they get ticket issued properly for EWR to OGG flight.
• If we hadn’t showed up to the airport 3+ hours in advance we would have missed the flight.

Question: What probably went wrong in this case and what could I have done before leaving home?

cfischer

You need to check the ticket with the ticketing carrier. In each instance your ticket was not (properly) re-issued. The reservation was changed, but the ticket was not which is what caused the issue.
Always make sure when such larger involuntary changes happen that are more than just a time change, the ticket needs re-issuing.
On the partner airline site you see the reservation ... you'll have to make sure the ticket matches the reservation.

miles_navigator

^^This above is the key. Where/how do I see what is ticketed? I asked United for the ticket receipt and the flights looked correct in the email they sent me.
Is there anything I could have done/asked w/ United in the 2022 case since UA issued the ticket?

WineCountryUA

This plus check the actual ticket number showing on both sites to make sure they match. Most cases, when problems occur, the ticket numbers do not match. The non-ticketing carrier has the older ticket number.

Lux Flyer

This actually sounds like it was UA's problem and the agent at UA gave you wrong information saying everything was fine. Two possibilities come to mind 1) the ticket was never reissued (but that should show pretty obviously to the agent) or 2) the ticket was revalidated so everything showed "in sync" in UA's system. Problem is you can't revalidate a ticket that has non-UA flights on it as it doesn't update the ticket for the non-UA carrier; it needs to be reissued. A competent agent should be able to recognize that the ticket had been revalidated for the non-UA flight, but again if they weren't looking for it, it could be easily missed.

In terms of seeing what is ticketed - there's no sure fire way that I know of. I know UA's receipts show what the ticket status currently is (although if it was revalidated, this wouldn't reflect what the other carrier sees). It's possible the other airline does the same thing with their receipts, so if you try request a receipt from them, it may show what their system has for the ticket. An indirect way would be to compare eTicket numbers, the eTicket number has to change if the ticket is reissued. So if you have a non-UA flight change, and your ticket number remains the same as when you originally booked, the ticket wasn't reissued and still needs to be to avoid any issue with the other airline.



Again ticket needed to be reissued in this case, so if SQ kept the same ticket number, they didn't reissue. The UA app shows what the confirmed reservation is, not the ticketed flights. Usually on united.com it will give a message about a ticket error if you're looking at the reservation (But this might only be for United issued tickets). In this situation if you request an email copy of the receipt from united.com it should have shown the SQ ticket which would have been the SFO OGG flights listed still.

AirbusFan2B

For those of us without a travel industry background, in what circumstances is it crucial to check for and insist on ticket reissuance, what are the indicators of the condition, and what is the evidence of completion? Is there a FT thread for this question? It seems like the airlines and their dubious IT are not proactive in this.

Lux Flyer

For United specifically - if there is a change to a flight that is ticketed on United (016 stock) but operated by any carrier that is not United or United Express, then the ticket needs to be reissued to guarantee that the reserved flights and ticketed flights are in sync with the other carrier. The evidence of this is that your eTicket number will be changed as a new ticket was issued.

I'm not entirely positive of the situation for other airlines if they use the same base GDS/reservation system (ie. if both carriers are based on Amadeus). Theoretically, the ticket could be revalidated in that situation because they both use the same underlying reservation system, but safest bet is still to have it reissued.

In general to minimize the any chance for issues: if a change happens to a flight operated by any carrier other than the ticketing carrier, then have the ticket reissued for the new itinerary. That should guarantee the operating carrier has the reserved flights and corresponding ticket for those flights.

jsloan

Also, any change in date, ticketed points (origin, destination, or a stopover point), or number of flights requires reissuance. (Implicitly in your statement, changing the operating carrier also requires reissuance).

The problem isn’t actually that the tickets don’t get reissued — that’s normally not a problem. They’ll be queued and then reticketed. The problem is normally that the ticketing carrier doesn’t always push though the updates to the operating carrier. Thus, the operating carrier sees old ticket numbers, which will have a status of “Exchanged / Reissued.” As far as they know, the ticket could have been used on some other flight on another carrier. Therefore, the flight reservations will eventually be canceled for lack of a valid ticket. So, it’s less important to insist upon reissuance than it is to ensure that, when the ticket is reissued, the ticket numbers change on your United receipt and the new number is reflected on the operating carrier’s reservation.

sannmann

This is my experience as well. If United makes a change to a ticket that involves a partner, it needs to reissue that ticket, generating a new ticket number.

If United changes a ticket that only involves United segments, the ticket number doesn’t need to change. United can make the change within its own system.

VRFast

How about a PNR split on a 016 ticket that involves partner flights (LH)? Split due to upgrade request for 2/3 on original PNR. No flights changed, same flight numbers for everyone involved on the PNRs.

miles_navigator

This above is a good subtle point. A few questions:
- Is the re-issue process by ticketing carrier an automated process or is it manual requiring a human intervention. In my Case 1 above, my ticket was fine but kids on the same PNR wasn't so makes me think someone just took care of the lead traveler and forgot about the rest in the group.
- The point about ticketing carrier pushing the updates to the operating carrier, how can we see if this is done? The Manage Bookings etc. doesn't give us this info. Also, what are the they key code words to use when talking to a UA representative? I have no UA status so I get these outsourced call centers when I call UA and I can tell they don't have a ton of reservation experience to notice these subtle things because I did call several times before leaving the US and asked them to review after the changes.

brhacker

My experience as well. Recently flew LIM-PTY-LAX on 016/UA ticket on CM/Copa metal. LIM-PTY delayed enough that I missed PTY-LAX. Called UA to rebook on next CM PTY-LAX flight; UA rebooked it. Could not check in on Copa app. Called Copa; Copa explained that there was some problem on the UA end that Copa could not solve. Called UA and was told problem was solved. Again tried to check in on Copa app, but could not. Again called Copa; Copa explained that there was some problem on the UA end that Copa could not solve. Again called UA and was problem finally was solved.

findark

You want to confirm that:

• The operating carrier shows the reservation on the correct flights, status confirmed, and ideally confirm your seat assignments are valid, and
• The ticket number attached to the reservation according to the operating carrier matches the reissued ticket number according to the ticketing carrier (or agency)

The exact procedure for this may vary by carrier, but it is usually possible online. When UA reissues a ticket you should get a new receipt with the new ticket number, and a lot of carriers will display the ticket number as part of the reservation screen (or "print receipt") option.

Note as a general rule you should always expect a reissue - UA is actually somewhat special in the degree to which its own systems support using revalidation only to make changes (for example, you can often reroute on UA without a reissue when doing SDC). By contrast, DL can't even clear a certificate upgrade without a reissue, and routinely fails this, leading to the same problem experienced by OP expect it's DL ticket, DL metal.

jsloan

For UA, ticketing is handled via a queue. Whoever makes the change to the itinerary is responsible for queueing the reticket, and then it's automated from that point forward, when successful. A failed reticket requires manual intervention. (It can fail if the operating carrier does not return confirmed inventory, if the payment method fails, etc.). I'd expect that all tickets in the same PNR would enter the ticketing queue together, but admittedly, I don't know whether or not there are any guardrails in place to ensure that happens. Tickets in the same PNR have to match in every particular (date, routing, fare class, flights, carriers) so there'd never be a situation where you'd need to reticket one but not the others. However, if the PNR got split, I could see that happening if the agent who made the change forgot to reticket other passengers. It's a really weird thing to forget, though.

You can only discover a problem by checking with the operating carrier and validating the e-ticket numbers, as described. Most airlines will show this online, but you can always call and ask them to read the ticket number to you, or you can read the correct ticket number to them and ask if they match. There won't be anything on the United side that says "we sent this information to the partner."

If something fails, the phrase I'd use is that "Airline XYZ doesn't seem to have the correct ticket number. Can you please push the ticket through to their system again?" I'd also try calling the operating carrier and see If they'll agree to let you read the new numbers (one per passenger) to them. YMMV on whether or not they're willing / able to enter ticket numbers manually into their PNR, though. You can also try a conference call between the airlines, although if both have long hold times, that can be a challenge.

SPN Lifer

This is very practical language, which I have saved for future reference.