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-   -   B737MAX Recertification - Archive (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/2031779-b737max-recertification-archive.html)

DenverBrian Mar 26, 2019 2:46 pm


Originally Posted by EWR764 (Post 30932340)
Is that observation directed at me? Because I don't think I've ever made any such a conclusory statement in connection with this matter.

No, not at you. At the amalgam of posters posting in this and several other related threads throughout FT.

LIH Mar 26, 2019 3:10 pm


Originally Posted by radonc1 (Post 30932537)
...I suspect that if you asked a plane load of passengers, less than 10% of them would even know what model of plane they were on....

+1. While I probably am of the opinion that this is a bigger financial deal for $BA than most of the finance types on here, I can certainly agree that once they're back in the air it will be a very short time before the flying public totally forgets it.

I sat next to a major carrier pilot on the way to HNL once and when I referenced the gauge of the aircraft in referring to it he laughed at me (already knowing that I was in no way affiliated with the aviation industry). I am sure defending non -8 MAX 737s has been the majority of the increased workload for the customer service at the major carriers that fly them.

BF263533 Mar 26, 2019 3:15 pm


Originally Posted by Newman55 (Post 30932470)
I fail to see how the cabin diameter of an aircraft means anything to this discussion. If you think mechanics on the current generation of 737 is similar to what was designed in the 1960s, then I guess we should discuss the safety of current A320 family.

The moderator transferred this post from from another thread dealing with whether United should cancel the 737mAX order & go for the A321neo. I was trying to bring home the point that cabin width for the 737 was set on a. 1950s detrrmination, thus being more narrow the the A321. Not a safety issue, but a passenger comfort issue, more related to the original posting thread. Cabin width & seat width are factors in passenger airplane preference. 737 safety. & grounding should only be discussed in the other thread in the context where it would bear on UA's decision to switch to the A321neo & possibly some A220s. Issues such as cabin width should be in the other thread. There are a lot of 737mAX issues, but keeping posts focused to the most relevent thread promotes a more focused discussion.

Newman55 Mar 26, 2019 3:38 pm


Originally Posted by BF263533 (Post 30932927)
Not a safety issue, but a passenger comfort issue, more related to the original posting thread. Cabin width & seat width are factors in passenger airplane preference.

It's irrelevant to either thread because United and all other airlines don't buy planes based on perceived comfort of economy passengers. Most economy passengers don't know the difference between an A380 and a CRJ900.

BF263533 Mar 26, 2019 4:16 pm

Southwest 737 Max Makes Energency Landing in Orlando
 
Appears to be an engine issue. From Orlando to Victorville

Dublin_rfk Mar 26, 2019 4:40 pm


Originally Posted by BF263533 (Post 30933079)
Appears to be an engine issue. From Orlando to Victorville

well that clinches it. Ground the max (sarcasm)

DenverBrian Mar 26, 2019 6:33 pm


Originally Posted by radonc1 (Post 30932537)
I suspect that while you may avoid the 737 Max from now on

I've never said I'd avoid the 737MAX "from now on." I'll avoid it for a good year or two. Might as well let others be the guinea pigs to ensure the fixes will actually take. <shrugs>

cerealmarketer Mar 26, 2019 6:53 pm


Originally Posted by LarryJ (Post 30931302)
In 1965, three newly-introduced B727-100s crashed in the US in a three-month period.

Those crashes weren't due to a flaw in the airplane. They were due to the procedures which were carried over from flying prop-driven airplanes which had instant power availability compared to the slow spool-up characteristics of a turbine engine. The proper procedure with a jet is to have the engines spooled up by 500' - 1000' before landing so that power will be available instantly if needed. Pilots transitioning from propeller-driven airplanes weren't always complying with that procedure.

Modern turbine engines additionally mitigate that threat by having higher in-flight idle settings which reduce the spool-up time from flight-idle. This also makes the newer airplanes harder to slow-down and descend quickly which does lead to some go-arounds when the pilots are brought in on a tighter approach than they were expecting.

Here's the read on that interesting situation...

https://www.tmtindustryinsider.com/2016/08/air-safety-the-deadly-boeing-727/

"The reaction was swift and dramatic. Travel agencies requested the airlines to cancel 727 bookings. Some major corporations ordered their employees to avoid 727 flights. Congressional claims erupted that the design was unsafe, and demands followed that all 727s should be grounded. In response, the Civil Aeronautics Board (the CAB, which was responsible for investigating air accidents and making safety recommendations at that time) undertook a review of the 727’s airworthiness, aerodynamics and flight characteristics. It also requested the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to review the 727 design data. And the Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) convened a meeting of 727 operators to review their operating procedures and training.

The result of these reviews was a conclusion that the 727 was airworthy and properly certificated. However, the CAB found that pilots were making unstabilized, high descent rate approaches more often in 727s than in any other jet transport—a practice that was facilitated by the 727’s sophisticated flap system, which allowed excessive sink rates to develop if approaches were not carefully monitored.

"
Similar public reaction although the govt didn't ground while it reviewed. Two of the accidents were UA planes.

sanfran8080 Mar 26, 2019 7:45 pm

Meanwhile I just read there was a recent emergency landing of a SW Max 8 or 9 recent at MCO.....

jsloan Mar 26, 2019 8:17 pm


Originally Posted by sanfran8080 (Post 30933590)
Meanwhile I just read there was a recent emergency landing of a SW Max 8 or 9 recent at MCO.....

Per the FAA, this was unrelated to the recent crashes. (CNBC story here). The pilot reported a performance issue from an engine, rather than anything related to the control systems of the aircraft.

While I have no doubt that some people will tie the two together anyway, at first blush, it looks like nothing but bad luck. An engine failure can happen on any aircraft at any time.

WineCountryUA Mar 26, 2019 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by BF263533 (Post 30933079)
Appears to be an engine issue. From Orlando to Victorville


Originally Posted by sanfran8080 (Post 30933590)
Meanwhile I just read there was a recent emergency landing of a SW Max 8 or 9 recent at MCO.....

WN MAX 8 on a ferry trip (no passengers), reportedly an unrelated engine issue

Dublin_rfk Mar 26, 2019 8:56 pm


Originally Posted by WineCountryUA (Post 30933697)
WN MAX 8 on a ferry trip (no passengers), reportedly an unrelated engine issue

To the media there is no difference.

DenverBrian Mar 27, 2019 6:30 am


Originally Posted by Dublin_rfk (Post 30933777)
To the media there is no difference.

Haven't seen it on TV media at all; only passing references in local media. So obviously there is a difference.

fumje Mar 27, 2019 6:42 am

The Sun, hardly a journalistic beacon, but nevertheless a part of the media, put out a bit entitled 'JET EMERGENCY / Boeing 737 Max 8 plane identical to Ethiopian crash jet in emergency landing'.

Out of respect for intelligence, I will not link to it.

fumje Mar 27, 2019 7:02 am


Originally Posted by DenverBrian (Post 30934848)
That's the spirit! Fight the good fight! :D :D :D

(The reason these cliick-bait headlines are used is because, well, they work. Never forget that by definition, half of the world is below average IQ.)

Indeed, that one is click-bait-y, but I think it's generally in line with a lot of the recent reporting's failure or inability to give proper context to the issue that caused the two crashes. So for a while, at least, minor incidents are going to be labelled as 'crash-y 737 stuff' even when they're entirely unrelated.


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