Surely the demand is exceeding supply
Jun 30, 2020, 4:23 pm
#31
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,468
True, but that frequency is directed toward business travelers. Speaking of the NY metro, I can't even think of any businesses that are substantially in their offices, let alone sending employees back on the road.
Jun 30, 2020, 9:18 pm
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
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Jun 30, 2020, 10:12 pm
#33
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Mlife NOIR
Posts: 320
Been having to do bookings on American because UA has been either sold out or charging 2x as much for economy as AA was charging for first on the same route.
Jun 30, 2020, 10:21 pm
#34
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: US left coast
Programs: *wood Marriott P-life, *alliance UA MM, AA MM
Posts: 167
The third leg of the triad is plane size (or perhaps # of rows)
Earlier this month, I flew coast to coast with middle seat open ... as committed and a good experience overall. Learned to pack own food for the new United
I received a text the day before return flight from East to West
thought fairly full meant all rows, not all seats as we sat six across in the 737 (and as luck would have it, someone else also sitting in the seat, mask not on partial blame to cabin crew on that misdirect and enforcement ). Not a good experience, but doubt that Ill get any survey form (feedback will take the form of looking at other airlines)
Only options were indirect flights and layovers or fly another day when same issue might occur
does the 737 save so much over the 757 that its worth packing the passengers?
Earlier this month, I flew coast to coast with middle seat open ... as committed and a good experience overall. Learned to pack own food for the new United
I received a text the day before return flight from East to West
We're excited to see you on board. We wanted to let you know that we're expecting your United flight xxxx from AAA to BBB to be fairly full. If you'd like to consider other options, you can change your flight with no change fee. Please note that the number of travelers on this flight and others may change.
To view other flight options, go to: https://united.com/travel/
To view other flight options, go to: https://united.com/travel/
Only options were indirect flights and layovers or fly another day when same issue might occur
does the 737 save so much over the 757 that its worth packing the passengers?
Jun 30, 2020, 10:44 pm
#35
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: COS
Programs: United 1K & 1MM, IHG Plat Elite, Hyatt Gold, Marriott GE, Hertz 5*, National Exec
Posts: 270
It's really bizarre what UA is doing. I'm out of COS and have flown each week since end of May.
COS-LCH, United wanted me to fly COS-DEN-AUS-LCH.
COS-BOS, United wanted $1400 for coach. AA wanted $1000 for F. Easy decision.
COS-MSY, United's schedule was COS-DEN-IAD-MSY--basically the entire day in airports or airplanes. The real kicker is that there ARE flights from COS-IAH-MSY, but I could only do that by booking individual flights. UA wouldn't even offer the 2-flight option. I can only assume they're just trying to fill planes/routes.
Doing alot more driving and alot more shopping around. UA really shooting themselves in the foot here, as far as I'm concerned. I can only imagine what reward travel is like.
COS-LCH, United wanted me to fly COS-DEN-AUS-LCH.
COS-BOS, United wanted $1400 for coach. AA wanted $1000 for F. Easy decision.
COS-MSY, United's schedule was COS-DEN-IAD-MSY--basically the entire day in airports or airplanes. The real kicker is that there ARE flights from COS-IAH-MSY, but I could only do that by booking individual flights. UA wouldn't even offer the 2-flight option. I can only assume they're just trying to fill planes/routes.
Doing alot more driving and alot more shopping around. UA really shooting themselves in the foot here, as far as I'm concerned. I can only imagine what reward travel is like.
Jun 30, 2020, 11:05 pm
#36
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Mileage Plus Global Services 2MM
Posts: 1,201
After reading the story of American being lauded for "being bold and leading the industry out of the COVID crisis", all I have to say is..... what?!?!
They ARE making a bold bet, but it's kind of like betting 0 or 00 on a roulette wheel. Their daily cash burn is about $70 million per day and they were in by far the worst financial shape of any of the majors pre-COVID. Virtually every analyst said if any of the major airlines didn't make it out of the crisis it would be American. They decided they would double down on their cash drain, keep soft product close to pre-COVID levels, and ramp up service waaaaaaay beyond the competition and hope they can lure enough passengers from the competition to survive.
If they succeed it will be a Hail Mary. If they fail, they'll say to themselves "heck we were going to go belly up anyway, may as well go down swinging". Not exactly a strategy that any of the other majors should copy.
They ARE making a bold bet, but it's kind of like betting 0 or 00 on a roulette wheel. Their daily cash burn is about $70 million per day and they were in by far the worst financial shape of any of the majors pre-COVID. Virtually every analyst said if any of the major airlines didn't make it out of the crisis it would be American. They decided they would double down on their cash drain, keep soft product close to pre-COVID levels, and ramp up service waaaaaaay beyond the competition and hope they can lure enough passengers from the competition to survive.
If they succeed it will be a Hail Mary. If they fail, they'll say to themselves "heck we were going to go belly up anyway, may as well go down swinging". Not exactly a strategy that any of the other majors should copy.
Jun 30, 2020, 11:41 pm
#37
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond
Posts: 60,222
Today in Senate Hearing, Sen Bernie Sanders and CDC Director Redfield pointedly criticized these pack them in policies, Redfield mentioning AA specific for scorn.
UA is on the wrong side of history here
UA is on the wrong side of history here
Jul 1, 2020, 4:59 am
#38
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,148
I also struggle with this notion that UA only cares about business travel as Ive seen plenty of their ads in the past directed toward leisure travelers. Besides, they didnt make the effort to develop their Basic Economy offering for the business traveler.
Jul 1, 2020, 6:46 am
#39
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,148
After reading the story of American being lauded for "being bold and leading the industry out of the COVID crisis", all I have to say is..... what?!?!
They ARE making a bold bet, but it's kind of like betting 0 or 00 on a roulette wheel. Their daily cash burn is about $70 million per day and they were in by far the worst financial shape of any of the majors pre-COVID. Virtually every analyst said if any of the major airlines didn't make it out of the crisis it would be American. They decided they would double down on their cash drain, keep soft product close to pre-COVID levels, and ramp up service waaaaaaay beyond the competition and hope they can lure enough passengers from the competition to survive.
If they succeed it will be a Hail Mary. If they fail, they'll say to themselves "heck we were going to go belly up anyway, may as well go down swinging". Not exactly a strategy that any of the other majors should copy.
They ARE making a bold bet, but it's kind of like betting 0 or 00 on a roulette wheel. Their daily cash burn is about $70 million per day and they were in by far the worst financial shape of any of the majors pre-COVID. Virtually every analyst said if any of the major airlines didn't make it out of the crisis it would be American. They decided they would double down on their cash drain, keep soft product close to pre-COVID levels, and ramp up service waaaaaaay beyond the competition and hope they can lure enough passengers from the competition to survive.
If they succeed it will be a Hail Mary. If they fail, they'll say to themselves "heck we were going to go belly up anyway, may as well go down swinging". Not exactly a strategy that any of the other majors should copy.
Jul 1, 2020, 8:06 am
#40
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,468
OT, but so too is Dr. Redfield, or at least the agency he oversees... nevertheless I thought it was a cheap shot against AA.
Extrapolating from guidance since May, I would guess AA cash burn is in the $40-50m/day range now. UA and Delta should be similar; around $30-40m/day.
Weren't those airline cash burn figures estimated back in April when traffic was down around 5% of last year? TSA throughput data indicates traffic has increased by more than 6X since the bottom so I doubt those estimates are still useful. Also, AA isn't luring passengers from the competition. UA simply isn't offering much in the way of opportunities for people to choose them.
Last edited by EWR764; Jul 1, 2020 at 8:12 am
Jul 1, 2020, 8:11 am
#41
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Jul 1, 2020, 9:30 am
#42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,148
I'll paraphrase Dean Wormer of Animal House: "Fat, dumb and happy while operating just 15% or so of your schedule is no way to go through life, son".
Jul 1, 2020, 9:35 am
#43
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: No. California
Programs: UA MP HH LTD
Posts: 2,042
OK, we have pretty much beat this dead horse to a pulp. August schedule:
https://hub.united.com/2020-07-01-un...646305172.html
https://hub.united.com/2020-07-01-un...646305172.html
Jul 1, 2020, 9:43 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TOA
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OK, we have pretty much beat this dead horse to a pulp. August schedule:
https://hub.united.com/2020-07-01-un...646305172.html
https://hub.united.com/2020-07-01-un...646305172.html
David
Jul 1, 2020, 9:46 am
#45
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TPA
Programs: United MP
Posts: 463
After reading the story of American being lauded for "being bold and leading the industry out of the COVID crisis", all I have to say is..... what?!?!
They ARE making a bold bet, but it's kind of like betting 0 or 00 on a roulette wheel. Their daily cash burn is about $70 million per day and they were in by far the worst financial shape of any of the majors pre-COVID. Virtually every analyst said if any of the major airlines didn't make it out of the crisis it would be American. They decided they would double down on their cash drain, keep soft product close to pre-COVID levels, and ramp up service waaaaaaay beyond the competition and hope they can lure enough passengers from the competition to survive.
If they succeed it will be a Hail Mary. If they fail, they'll say to themselves "heck we were going to go belly up anyway, may as well go down swinging". Not exactly a strategy that any of the other majors should copy.
They ARE making a bold bet, but it's kind of like betting 0 or 00 on a roulette wheel. Their daily cash burn is about $70 million per day and they were in by far the worst financial shape of any of the majors pre-COVID. Virtually every analyst said if any of the major airlines didn't make it out of the crisis it would be American. They decided they would double down on their cash drain, keep soft product close to pre-COVID levels, and ramp up service waaaaaaay beyond the competition and hope they can lure enough passengers from the competition to survive.
If they succeed it will be a Hail Mary. If they fail, they'll say to themselves "heck we were going to go belly up anyway, may as well go down swinging". Not exactly a strategy that any of the other majors should copy.
If we did a Venn diagram of the airlines with the best prices, emptiest planes, and best service in the current conditions there wouldn't be anyone in the middle.