United COO to employees: Consider voluntary separation / New 2021 separation program
#76
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Does Non Rev count?
Posts: 588
I am sure this is covered in other threads...how do pilots stay current with their certification if they:
1 - stay with UA but do not get to fly
2 - don't stay with UA and unemployed for a long time
It is just so hard to imagine people and companies reinventing themselves in such a difficult environment. Some do and come out stronger. So keep that hope!
1 - stay with UA but do not get to fly
2 - don't stay with UA and unemployed for a long time
It is just so hard to imagine people and companies reinventing themselves in such a difficult environment. Some do and come out stronger. So keep that hope!
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Posts: 10,514
Disagree. UA's boat was drilled with holes to start 2020 by management deciding to shift their mileage accrual structure to enable "HVFs" and structured "discounts" for their contractual corporate accounts. Go back to the change announcements and a significant move from many folks who'd stuck with UA and/or CO, with a multiplicity that were their loyal FFs for decades.
Also, by implementing their refund delay/denial tactics as the pandemic unfolded and continuing even with the admonishment of DOT, they've engendered even more ill will.
And now, they can't even deliver on a schedule that would enable their HVFs and forcing folks to take multiple stops. The time sensitive HVFs will choose what works, not what UA forces them into.
They are sinking and they know it.
David
Also, by implementing their refund delay/denial tactics as the pandemic unfolded and continuing even with the admonishment of DOT, they've engendered even more ill will.
And now, they can't even deliver on a schedule that would enable their HVFs and forcing folks to take multiple stops. The time sensitive HVFs will choose what works, not what UA forces them into.
They are sinking and they know it.
David
With skeleton schedules running, every airline is suffering. Mileage accrual has little to do with what's happening now.
And not just in the airlines industry, I work for non-travel related global company with offices in more than 20 countries, and yet we have had salary reductions for almost every employee due to declining revenue, as well as large numbers of staff reductions.
All of this goes beyond the MileagePlus program. These are tough time for most, including UA and its workforce.
#78
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,605
Respectfully disagree.
With skeleton schedules running, every airline is suffering. Mileage accrual has little to do with what's happening now.
And not just in the airlines industry, I work for non-travel related global company with offices in more than 20 countries, and yet we have had salary reductions for almost every employee due to declining revenue, as well as large numbers of staff reductions.
All of this goes beyond the MileagePlus program. These are tough time for most, including UA and its workforce.
With skeleton schedules running, every airline is suffering. Mileage accrual has little to do with what's happening now.
And not just in the airlines industry, I work for non-travel related global company with offices in more than 20 countries, and yet we have had salary reductions for almost every employee due to declining revenue, as well as large numbers of staff reductions.
All of this goes beyond the MileagePlus program. These are tough time for most, including UA and its workforce.
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Posts: 10,514
these are indeed tough times for all airlines, but when the mileage plus SVP sends us an email telling us UA would be refunding redeposit charges for cancelled award flights, and here we are almost eight weeks later and there is no refund, that doesn’t engender goodwill.
That point I had made to the other poster - travel is basically non-existent at this point, so to pin UA's financial difficulty on its FF program is unfair. We can make a better evaluation on the other side of recovery.
At any rate, these separation/reduction news are never anything you want to hear. Best of luck to everyone!
#80
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
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Posts: 66,857
Isn't this thread about what is happening to employees, aren't there other threads for UA customer issues?
#81
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: Does Non Rev count?
Posts: 588
For my fleet (757/767) DEN, LAX, SFO will no longer be a base. The 75 most likely won't ever fly again, and only a subset of 767's will remain. Pretty much everything is a big question mark at the moment as to what comes this September/October (furlough or displacement) but I should be on the right side of seniority to have a somewhat soft landing. My heart goes out to my fellow crew-members who unfortunately wont.
It's amazing how quickly things can change... 120 days ago there was a pilot shortage, and we were spinning up a bunch of new hire classes. Now, 30% of our pilots will most likely be gone by end of year or sooner.... My fiance at AA is in the same boat, and also flies the 757/767, which is completely gone.
It's amazing how quickly things can change... 120 days ago there was a pilot shortage, and we were spinning up a bunch of new hire classes. Now, 30% of our pilots will most likely be gone by end of year or sooner.... My fiance at AA is in the same boat, and also flies the 757/767, which is completely gone.
#82
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York
Programs: United, Delta
Posts: 8
United executives overdue to choose "voluntary separation"
In my opinion, wildly overpaid United executives are overdue to take a voluntary separation.
Their behavior is chronically ethically horrifying--including the latest maneuver to take a fortune from taxpayers and then try to stiff the employees despite conditions which forbade that until September.
If overprivileged execs don't want to quietly leave in shame at no cost (saving United and its shareholders a huge amount of cash), then there is an expression:
Lock 'em up.
Their behavior is chronically ethically horrifying--including the latest maneuver to take a fortune from taxpayers and then try to stiff the employees despite conditions which forbade that until September.
If overprivileged execs don't want to quietly leave in shame at no cost (saving United and its shareholders a huge amount of cash), then there is an expression:
Lock 'em up.
#83
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
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#84
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
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Posts: 9,453
Technically, no, but that's been discussed at length. Whether the conduct falls within the "spirit" of the Act is up for debate, but intention doesn't have the same legal effect as the express language.
Still, details don't really seem to matter when it comes to bashing United and its management for their handling of an unprecedented, completely exogenous situation.
Still, details don't really seem to matter when it comes to bashing United and its management for their handling of an unprecedented, completely exogenous situation.
#85
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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But of course they should impact the leadership too.
#86
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Rowley, MA / Edgartown, MA / Christiansted, St. Croix (USVI)
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Posts: 579
Pensions are not very common these days and becoming increasingly less common. They were designed for lifetime employees, which is also increasingly less common. People today need to develop the discipline to save for retirement, 401K's are only one option for how to save. I know this is an unpopular reality but it's unlikely pensions are coming back and relying on only on social security or doing nothing isn't really a good plan.
#87
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 209
Pensions are not very common these days and becoming increasingly less common. They were designed for lifetime employees, which is also increasingly less common. People today need to develop the discipline to save for retirement, 401K's are only one option for how to save. I know this is an unpopular reality but it's unlikely pensions are coming back and relying on only on social security or doing nothing isn't really a good plan.
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,970
So, if a pilot lost his or her job with an airline, can't find a flying job for a long time and loses the certification, does it put the person at a disadvantage competing with others who are current?
If the airlines can have their pick when things pick up, they would put those who are current, right? Or, it does not matter since the pilots have to go through the training for the new airline anyway?
If the airlines can have their pick when things pick up, they would put those who are current, right? Or, it does not matter since the pilots have to go through the training for the new airline anyway?
#89
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO / LHR
Programs: UA GS 2.2MM / UC / AS Gold 75K / Bonvoy Plat / Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,028
What happens with FA base closures will be interesting. CLE and the new satellite bases are more certain candidates for closure. Logic would say all international bases (LHR/FRA/NRT/HKG) would go with reduced schedules, but there are economic reasons to keep them (cheaper US layovers), as well as tough severance labor laws (Germany/Japan) that make them harder to execute. I can’t see any FAs hired in the last few years post-merger making it through, regardless of base - and with them having lower comp levels than Senior FAs, the cut may be deeper to hit the number they are looking for, while increasing average flying hours for those that remain. My friends with 20 years of seniority are expecting to go back on Reserve, mostly Domestic.
Velocity of all this crazy/sad and understandably shocking to employees.
#90
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1k now; AA (no status); HY Diamond; SPG Platinum
Posts: 707
So we taxpayers gave United, and other carriers, billions in bailout money with the result being a massive cut in service and coverage and a plan to decimate the workforce the moment the no-layoff restriction is lifted at midnight Sept 30?
I think we've been taken for a ride on this deal - the bailout should have required an immediate layoff so people could collect unemployment with the $600 subsidy today through end of July and regular unemployment through end of the year, with a requirement for 75% or better payroll restoration no later than January 1, 2021, or the government would assume full equity ownership of the carrier until the loan was paid back. What idiot inked this dumb arrangement?
Unless we see a big bounce back in the economy within 30-45 days, which is unlikely, I am hopeful the morons in Washington will extent that $600 through end of the year. It can make a huge difference for people who are laid off in an industry where finding replacement work is not easy.
I think we've been taken for a ride on this deal - the bailout should have required an immediate layoff so people could collect unemployment with the $600 subsidy today through end of July and regular unemployment through end of the year, with a requirement for 75% or better payroll restoration no later than January 1, 2021, or the government would assume full equity ownership of the carrier until the loan was paid back. What idiot inked this dumb arrangement?
Unless we see a big bounce back in the economy within 30-45 days, which is unlikely, I am hopeful the morons in Washington will extent that $600 through end of the year. It can make a huge difference for people who are laid off in an industry where finding replacement work is not easy.
Not many companies can survive without any income for entire quarter. This is apple that makes close to 50% margin
Look at US airline industry- I know the left would like to claim billions of loan is a give away.
Look at the numbers
US airlines made $4.6B on operating revenue of $51.3B and operating expense of $44.9B.
How long can UA survive on $5B in payrol grant and loan and potentially another $4.5B loan. These ain’t free money.
This is barely enough to last 1.5 quarter (5 months) at current revenue rate. UA has already suffered or project to suffer 3.5 month by end of June.
Stop just looking at number as one number only without looking into whole picture.