Mar 20, 2020, 9:29 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Please do not modify or remove
In recent days a number of threads have started touching on the impacts on UA as a business going forward due to the travel disruption of COVID-19 --- including multiple Viability / Bankruptcy / Bailout discussions. While inconceivable a few months ago, UA (and all commercial airlines) is facing challenges that are uncharted.
This consolidated thread has been created by merging a number of existing threads that trend to address essentially the same subjects.
Some thread guidelines
-- This thread / forum is for discussing UA and the UA traveler, so please focus on UA in these discussions. Other forums exist to discuss other carriers or the industry in general -- we do just UA here.
-- This thread is for discussion of how UA gets from here to its future state.
-- All the standard FT rules apply. We will have a civil, constructive, collegial discussion -- even in these turbulent times.
-- While much of this will play out in the political arena, this forum is not the place for political / OMNI discussions. Please use threads in appropriate forums for that, such as Covid-19 US tax cuts or fiscal stimulus
-- Similarly, discussions of the evils / greed of corporations or other broad societal issues are out of scope, those are for OMNI -- let's stick to discussing UA, its past and its future here
-- Please do not start new threads on these topics in the UA forum. One reason for this consolidated thread was to minimize the redundant posts in separate threads. There is plenty of room in the scope of this thread to cover all aspects of these topics. (Note things like M&A, restructuring, ... would all be in scope).
-- Please once you have laid out your position, do not repetitively re-state that opinion. It is usually a better discussion if many participate vs a few dominating the thread
On behalf of the UA Moderator Team
WineCountryUA
In recent days a number of threads have started touching on the impacts on UA as a business going forward due to the travel disruption of COVID-19 --- including multiple Viability / Bankruptcy / Bailout discussions. While inconceivable a few months ago, UA (and all commercial airlines) is facing challenges that are uncharted.
This consolidated thread has been created by merging a number of existing threads that trend to address essentially the same subjects.
Some thread guidelines
-- This thread / forum is for discussing UA and the UA traveler, so please focus on UA in these discussions. Other forums exist to discuss other carriers or the industry in general -- we do just UA here.
-- This thread is for discussion of how UA gets from here to its future state.
-- All the standard FT rules apply. We will have a civil, constructive, collegial discussion -- even in these turbulent times.
-- While much of this will play out in the political arena, this forum is not the place for political / OMNI discussions. Please use threads in appropriate forums for that, such as Covid-19 US tax cuts or fiscal stimulus
-- Similarly, discussions of the evils / greed of corporations or other broad societal issues are out of scope, those are for OMNI -- let's stick to discussing UA, its past and its future here
-- Please do not start new threads on these topics in the UA forum. One reason for this consolidated thread was to minimize the redundant posts in separate threads. There is plenty of room in the scope of this thread to cover all aspects of these topics. (Note things like M&A, restructuring, ... would all be in scope).
-- Please once you have laid out your position, do not repetitively re-state that opinion. It is usually a better discussion if many participate vs a few dominating the thread
On behalf of the UA Moderator Team
WineCountryUA
UA's Viability / Financial Future due to the COVID-19 Era [Consolidated]
Jun 12, 2021, 8:03 pm
#1261
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
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Posts: 14,890
wonder if part of it is UA taking longer than others to scale up in the domestic market (I see just 4 SFO-LAX the days I’ve looked in June, for example) leaving the higher pricing due to supply constraint now vs. demand, and then the normal shift to less leisure/more business after summer end, with the additional realization that the business market will continue to be minimal this year.
Jun 12, 2021, 8:11 pm
#1262
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11,462
Cant speak for UA fares everywhere, but where I’ve been looking out of SFO, seems like fares go way down after Labor Day. I’ve looked at multiple places like SFO-LAX/SAN/SEA/ORD/CVG/JFK/EWR. As an example, SFO-ORD was looking at ~$500’ish in July/Aug, but down to $250-$300 in Sept/Oct.
wonder if part of it is UA taking longer than others to scale up in the domestic market (I see just 4 SFO-LAX the days I’ve looked in June, for example) leaving the higher pricing due to supply constraint now vs. demand, and then the normal shift to less leisure/more business after summer end, with the additional realization that the business market will continue to be minimal this year.
wonder if part of it is UA taking longer than others to scale up in the domestic market (I see just 4 SFO-LAX the days I’ve looked in June, for example) leaving the higher pricing due to supply constraint now vs. demand, and then the normal shift to less leisure/more business after summer end, with the additional realization that the business market will continue to be minimal this year.
When they hocus pocus their 15-flights-per-day advertised frequency into the realistic 4-to-5-per day, suddenly the fares all go up.
Jun 12, 2021, 8:22 pm
#1263
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Jun 12, 2021, 8:53 pm
#1264
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Posts: 66,855
Make hay while you can.
Suspect there is concern across the industry with post-Labor Day demand. Leisure travel will naturally drop-off and unclear what the levels of domestic business and international travel will be by September. There is still uncertain times ahead for the industry
Suspect there is concern across the industry with post-Labor Day demand. Leisure travel will naturally drop-off and unclear what the levels of domestic business and international travel will be by September. There is still uncertain times ahead for the industry
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jun 12, 2021 at 8:59 pm
Jun 12, 2021, 9:22 pm
#1265
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Ah well. Perhaps not "way up" but the cheap flights due to no one flying and UA pricing low are not there any more when doing an immediate search.
David
Jun 12, 2021, 9:29 pm
#1266
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
FA's with decent seniority (25 years) have been told they may go on reserve beginning in September due to the expected lack of business travel.
Jun 12, 2021, 9:35 pm
#1267
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Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
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I probably have to adjust my expectations somewhat, being new to SFO-area (arrived last July), and more importantly, a market with some fare/carrier competition. Haven’t been traveling yet since we flew out, but seeing $350 SFO-JFK/EWR for fall, and I thought that was decent given Jul/August prices, and coming from CVG where flights to NY have been $300+ for years.
Jun 12, 2021, 9:46 pm
#1268
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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OW? Or round-trip?
I probably have to adjust my expectations somewhat, being new to SFO-area (arrived last July), and more importantly, a market with some fare/carrier competition. Haven’t been traveling yet since we flew out, but seeing $350 SFO-JFK/EWR for fall, and I thought that was decent given Jul/August prices, and coming from CVG where flights to NY have been $300+ for years.
I probably have to adjust my expectations somewhat, being new to SFO-area (arrived last July), and more importantly, a market with some fare/carrier competition. Haven’t been traveling yet since we flew out, but seeing $350 SFO-JFK/EWR for fall, and I thought that was decent given Jul/August prices, and coming from CVG where flights to NY have been $300+ for years.
If I drop the need to fly UA, those prices drop further for flights on AA/B6, DL, AK below UA's $350 RTs.
David
Jun 28, 2021, 7:36 pm
#1269
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,855
Major milestone and probably related to improved in-flight F&B and opening more UCs
United Airlines, Inc. ("United"), a wholly-owned subsidiary of United Airlines Holdings, Inc. ("UAL" and, together with United, the "Company"), expects to generate positive adjusted pre-tax income in the month of July 2021, which would be the first month with positive adjusted pre-tax income since January 2020, before the start of the crisis. The COVID-19 pandemic caused the most severe drop in demand for travel in the history of aviation and this expected performance would mark an important financial milestone as the Company is turning its focus to the future of United Airlines.
Jun 28, 2021, 7:41 pm
#1270
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Major milestone and probably related to improved in-flight F&B and opening more UCs
Jun 28, 2021, 7:47 pm
#1271
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K MM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,768
Jun 28, 2021, 9:08 pm
#1272
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: UA LT GS | UA LT Club | Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 1,250
I thought they'd also announce an intent to pay back the gov't loans today, in advance of the order announcement tomorrow, but looks like they're saving that for the quarterly earnings announcement.
Jun 28, 2021, 10:17 pm
#1273
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP. Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,134
Positive cash flow? Wake me when any of that actually translates into improving the present product. I'll be well rested I assume.
Jun 28, 2021, 10:36 pm
#1274
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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Or, more likely, they have absolutely no intention of paying back the loans at all
Jun 28, 2021, 11:04 pm
#1275
Join Date: Jan 2018
Programs: UA LT GS | UA LT Club | Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 1,250