Originally Posted by seenitall

A paper BP is only correct as of the time that it was issued. Having one only proves that (absent computer failure) a particular seat was assigned to you at that time. Given that seat assignments are not guaranteed, it is possible that once-accurate paper BPs may later become inaccurate.

I do not know which of the pax in this situation had the latest (i.e., most correct) BP. Giving the BP to the FA can only be for the purpose of demonstrating that your claim to the seat is not ridiculous. It is not a demonstration that your claim to the seat is correct.

Originally Posted by joe_miami

If the OP or her husband had just been ordered "out of that seat now," it seems unreasonable to expect the OP to continue sitting in the seat in the hope deescalation would occur. At that point, the OP couldn't have known that the b.p. would be found and returned.

Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill

The paragraphs below are excerpted from our response to PIRC.

xxx
June 24 was, until the end, a very pleasant day. After having several productive meetings at the National Institutes of Health and the Food and Drug Administration, we arrived at IAD for our flight to LAX on UA1448. We checked in at the ticketing counter around 7 pm, or more than 3 hours before the scheduled departure time. We obtained boarding passes in both paper and electronic formats, and our assigned seats were 21A (Wientjes) and 21C (Au) in the exit row.

During boarding, I was in Boarding Group 1 and I asked Gate Agent A, who was manning the boarding process, if my husband, who was in Boarding Group 2, could board together with me. She gracefully approved and asked us individually if we were willing and able to perform the exit row functions. This short exchange confirms that the UA database recognized that we each had an exit row seat.

We were greeted by Flight Attendant A when we entered the aircraft. I was impressed by her warm and pleasant demeanor and complimented her on her cheerfulness. Flight Attendant A told us that she was pleased to xxx. We then proceeded to our seats, settled in and continued to be pleased with how well the day had gone.

After 10-15 minutes, a passenger who was an off-duty UA crew member took the 21B seat. After chatting for a few minutes about her upcoming assignment xxx, my husband asked if it would be acceptable to switch seat with her. She concurred. After the switch, my husband sat in 21B.

A few minutes later, another passenger (xxx, BG5 and BE) showed up with a boarding pass for my husband’s original seat (21A). I explained there must have been a mistake as my husband had the 21A seat assignment for several days. xxx then asked Flight Attendant B (FAB) for help. I showed FAB my husband’s paper boarding pass and pointed out he had the 21A seat. FAB looked at my husband’s and xxx’s boarding passes and then took both passes to the back of the plane. A few minutes later, she returned together with Gate Agent B (GAB) and again asked for my husband’s boarding pass. I answered that we already gave it to FAB. FAB forcefully said we never gave it to her. I replied that was simply not true. FAB then said to me “get out of that seat now” in a tone one should not even use to talk to a dog. FAB also said something like do you want to be out of here. I was shocked by her statements and asked what she meant by that. FAB then lowered her face close to mine (she was standing and I was seated) and threatened to take us off the plane. The situation became tense and chaotic.

xxx

To be clear, the other passenger was re-seated after the initial FAB threat. We have this person's boarding pass as FAB "threw" a bunch of boarding passes at us at some point.

Regarding de-escalation, as shown in previous postings, we tried twice to de-escalate the situation without success. Apparently some contributors feel our efforts were inadequate. From reading their other postings on this and other threads, we have the impression that many are highly successful. If indeed you feel that being called liars and being screamed at is acceptable and one should give the other cheek, we submit you are a better person.

We thank you for your interests in the story and for providing the forum to clarify the confusions.

Originally Posted by narvik

True, but at what point was the BG5, late passenger re-seated then? AFTER 21C stood up and confronted the FA?

Originally Posted by joe_miami

It must have been after, unless the OP was ordered "out of that seat now" for purposes of being kicked off the flight rather than to accommodate the other 21C.

Originally Posted by narvik

THIS is EXACTLY the part that many contributors to this thread can sympathize with, especially as many have witnessed similar, UNACCEPTABLE behavior of United Airlines' flight attendants.


The other side of the coin is that it seems a bit murky as to what happened (and what potentially could have happened) after this occurred. It appears to me that if you had left it at that, remained calm and in your seat, with your [eventually] recovered boarding pass in hand, the escalation would have died down, and you could have continued on your journey. It may have involved a re-visit with other UA staff, but since you had your correct BP back in hand, the seating issue should have been able to be cleared up successfully and in your favor, AS LONG AS you remained levelheaded and calm.

By INSISTING that you prove you were in the right by DEMANDING the FA look at your boarding pass IMMEDIATELY, you added to the escalation and deterioration of the situation. Or do you see that differently?

Originally Posted by seenitall

A paper BP is only correct as of the time that it was issued. Having one only proves that (absent computer failure) a particular seat was assigned to you at that time. Given that seat assignments are not guaranteed, it is possible that once-accurate paper BPs may later become inaccurate.

I do not know which of the pax in this situation had the latest (i.e., most correct) BP. Giving the BP to the FA can only be for the purpose of demonstrating that your claim to the seat is not ridiculous. It is not a demonstration that your claim to the seat is correct.

For these reasons, I don't understand the bellyaching about the BPs. As noted, the current manifest is available to the FA; and each pax's current seat assignment is available on the app to each pax. Clearly one of the instigating factors in this dispute was the OP's mistaken belief that his/her paper BP was legal tender -- and not just a receipt indicating a situation as of one previous point in time.

Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill

I explained there must have been a mistake as my husband had the 21A seat assignment for several days.

Originally Posted by joe_miami

To whatever extent this is true, there's no way the average person can be expected to know it.

Originally Posted by joe_miami

You don't understand the bellyaching? Airlines pound it into pax' heads that they need to sit in their assigned seats, for which the airlines often charge a premium.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

Most of us believe that we really do have the seat shown on our boarding pass unless there's some official notice of a change, such as a GA giving one a new boarding pass or the boarding pass scanner at the gate printing a new seat assignment ticket.

Originally Posted by cerealmarketer

Forbes article sequence of events was...

Independent of that the whole passenger council process is eye opening - maybe overly employee friendly as a function of union demands.

Originally Posted by COSPILOT

I'm leaning toward a bad apple UA FA. Having seen a FA go on a power trip, call the Captain, and demand the passenger be deplaned, I can see how this could be a problem. In the case I witnessed, the FA was overruled by the Captain, he even said something to her to the likes of you are out of line or something. We had about 10 of us ready and willing to support the passenger in question, and none of us could understand why the FA decided to be on whatever power trip that she was on. Needless to say, I avoided her like the plague, as did others that witnessed the event; that was self created by the FA.

If an FA pulled something similar on me, I will happily stand my ground, with whatever happens next being fine. If UA decided to ban me for doing nothing wrong, I will happily take my business elsewhere. Rogue and crazy FA's exist on UA, as my relative is one of them. She is a nut job, and I'm sugar coating it big time. I've only had a few flights with her, and will never do so again.

So to the OP, welcome to FT, which is a wealth of knowledge overall, but I do understand why some question everything. We do have first time posters with some crazy stories and conspiracy theories, then never return to explain. You haven't done that despite what has been said. Stick around, as this will go away at some point.

Originally Posted by jsloan

Herein lies the problem. The fact that your husband had been in seat 21A for several days doesn't mean that there was a mistake, or that he was still supposed to be sitting in seat 21A. Now, if the situation was as described -- a Premier passenger being moved to a worse seat for someone in BG5 -- that's unfortunate and probably would have resulted in an ETC upon contacting customer service post-flight.

Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill

Based on our experience, PIRC has the power to accuse, judge, conclude and decide on a passenger without giving any supportive evidence or justification.

Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill

Originally Posted by joe_miami

I agree that the husband having 21A for several days is irrelevant, but it doesn't hurt the OP's case, either, since it appears the husband also had 21A until sometime after boarding.

Originally Posted by joe_miami

What kind of "investigation" could have resulted in a United elite being bumped from his seat and from his traveling companion by someone flying Basic Economy? A FAM obviously wasn't going to be assigned a window, so the "resolution," such as it was, makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Jessie and Guill

Based on our experience, PIRC has the power to accuse, judge, conclude and decide on a passenger without giving any supportive evidence or justification.

Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer

I had to look this up. For the PIRC to even review your case - it was determined this was an actual physical attack. The bar is pushing and shoving to sexual misconduct. I think that is the context we should start with - To even get to that point, it was determined this was not a case of simple touching. An investigator then reviews facts and makes a recommendation to a committee. If it got to a point of banning you, they must have deemed it serious.

https://unitedafa.org/news/2019/7/06...ght-attendants

Originally Posted by jsloan

Getting a piece of paper from the GA is a formality.

Originally Posted by narvik

On my latest flight where the upgrade cleared very late which happened a few weeks ago, I had boarded with an E+ boarding pass. I checked the UA app every few minutes, and saw the GPU upgrade cleared maybe 15 minutes after having taken the E+ seat. Once I saw the upgrade cleared, I simply got up, walked to the newly assigned J seat, and asked the FA for a new boarding pass.
She just said (paraphrasing): "I can get you a new BP, but it may take a while, as I have to go and ask the GA for a new one."
Happy with my new seat, and not wanting to delay the flight, I simply said "Nah, don't bother, but thank you though", made myself comfortable and enjoyed the 13 hour flight in comfort. ^

A new boarding pass isn't ALWAYS issued!

Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer

I had to look this up. For the PIRC to even review your case - it was determined this was an actual physical attack. The bar is pushing and shoving to sexual misconduct. I think that is the context we should start with - To even get to that point, it was determined this was not a case of simple touching. An investigator then reviews facts and makes a recommendation to a committee. If it got to a point of banning you, they must have deemed it serious.

https://unitedafa.org/news/2019/7/06...ght-attendants

Originally Posted by joe_miami

It couldn't have been that serious if the ban was promptly lifted a couple days later. If the OP did anything close to "pushing and shoving" an FA, it's likely the police would have become involved.