UA in no rush to respond to DL's improved Y intl service
Jul 9, 2019, 12:14 am
#16
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I don't know enough about NPS to be able opine on its utility, but I do know a lot of people who travel to/from NY a lot, and don't care about loyalty. Take my sister for example. She does BOS-NYC 2x/month, usually day trips. EWR is the most convenient airport for her, but after single flights on DL and B6 late last year, she completely baled on UA, and also encouraged her staff to do the same. I asked her why she was so anti-UA, and she was unable to give me a straight answer. I'm guessing that UA actually didn't do anything bad to her, but DL and B6 simply treated her well.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 9, 2019 at 12:21 am Reason: Quote updated to reflect Moderator edit
Jul 9, 2019, 12:18 am
#17
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If they can’t charge a premium, then they necessarily have to have better load factors at the same fares if they’re going to benefit from this change. All carriers are at similar load factors well over 80%. There’s just not that much further to grow.
There are a lot of changes I’d like to see UA make before I’d worry about long-haul food quality in Economy.
ETA: Also, why is it that when the Polaris service was announced, it was mostly “let’s wait and see what they cut,” but DL gets credit for a program four months before it launches?
Last edited by jsloan; Jul 9, 2019 at 12:26 am
Jul 9, 2019, 12:49 am
#18
Join Date: Apr 2009
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My wife flies TLV-EWR a couple times a month in "Polaris" and says the food sucks up front as well. UA meals have been a disaster for years. I never understood why LH, OS, TK can offer warm bread on their short-mid haul flights and why UA gives you a frozen bagel for breakfast.
Jul 9, 2019, 5:58 am
#20
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,129
If they can’t charge a premium, then they necessarily have to have better load factors at the same fares if they’re going to benefit from this change. All carriers are at similar load factors well over 80%. There’s just not that much further to grow.
There are a lot of changes I’d like to see UA make before I’d worry about long-haul food quality in Economy.
ETA: Also, why is it that when the Polaris service was announced, it was mostly “let’s wait and see what they cut,” but DL gets credit for a program four months before it launches?
I doubt DL will try to extract some real premium in their fares but, OTOH, people do pay more to get more. Not everyone, obviously. Maybe DL's strategy is to try to pigeonhole AA and UA as just bigger versions of Frontier and Spirit. Many people really do pay more to avoid those carriers.
Jul 9, 2019, 6:06 am
#21
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Jul 9, 2019, 6:27 am
#22
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CAK
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DL's initiative isn't just about improved meals, it's about treating each passenger like a valued customer through specific on-board service protocols. I don't think UA is structurally capable of matching that . . . they cannot, for example, get their GAs to implement the published boarding order consistently, nor get their FAs to handle premium cabin meal priority properly. Stop treating Y pax like cattle? Good luck with that!
And I also do believe that a portion of DL's revenue premium comes from providing a better product. While many people buy just on price or convenience, others weigh quality quite heavily. The lodging market provides a very clear example of that . . . why else do consumers pay 10x per night to stay at the MO vs. the Marriott Courtyard?
And I also do believe that a portion of DL's revenue premium comes from providing a better product. While many people buy just on price or convenience, others weigh quality quite heavily. The lodging market provides a very clear example of that . . . why else do consumers pay 10x per night to stay at the MO vs. the Marriott Courtyard?
Skycubbie
Jul 9, 2019, 6:30 am
#24
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Jul 9, 2019, 6:33 am
#26
Join Date: Apr 2013
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I don't know enough about NPS to be able opine on its utility, but I do know a lot of people who travel to/from NY a lot, and don't care about loyalty. Take my sister for example. She does BOS-NYC 2x/month, usually day trips. EWR is the most convenient airport for her, but after single flights on DL and B6 late last year, she completely baled on UA, and also encouraged her staff to do the same. I asked her why she was so anti-UA, and she was unable to give me a straight answer. I'm guessing that UA actually didn't do anything bad to her, but DL and B6 simply treated her well.
employed as CEO? Thought he was UA’s face to the customer? MIA
Jul 9, 2019, 6:34 am
#27
Join Date: Oct 2017
Programs: SPG, Marriott, UA, AA, CX, SQ
Posts: 165
I don't know enough about NPS to be able opine on its utility, but I do know a lot of people who travel to/from NY a lot, and don't care about loyalty. Take my sister for example. She does BOS-NYC 2x/month, usually day trips. EWR is the most convenient airport for her, but after single flights on DL and B6 late last year, she completely baled on UA, and also encouraged her staff to do the same. I asked her why she was so anti-UA, and she was unable to give me a straight answer. I'm guessing that UA actually didn't do anything bad to her, but DL and B6 simply treated her well.
Jul 9, 2019, 6:43 am
#29
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I thought I tacitly acknowledged this shortcoming in the text you quoted. Yes, it's true that I didn't conduct a rigorous survey for the instant case. Like most people here, I can only offer subjective feedback based on a small sample size. The thing is, since my head isn't in the sand, I maintain that there is more value in this than blindly following airlines' delusional self assessments, especially as we start cobbling our data points together.
Jul 9, 2019, 6:49 am
#30
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Cynics saying Delta is foolish for giving the Y trade anything but a grim experience at a low price sound like the Big Three US automakers in the '70s when Toyota, Datsun, and the OPEC crisis all came to town. The idea of competing on quality at the low end of the market was seen as ridiculous. You know the rest.
Honda sold a lot of first-gen Accords because of an ingenious little coin holder on the dash. Standard equipment, less than a dollar to install, stole customers from GM for life.
In the airline business, once choice and quality have hit rock bottom, you can place Kirby's bet -- that there is no material amenity or experience design tweak customers will respond to -- or Delta's bet, e.g. that a few small differentiators can move loyalty, demand, and repeat business.
A Delta coach passenger may deplane remembering only that the crew produced hot towels, which probably cost < 3 cents per seat. Better than getting off a United flight remembering only that it took three hours for the first and only drink service and no crew member spoke a word beyond "Drink?"
Truth. So, as for the negative examples of AA MRTC or TWA Comfort Class: those were 16-25 years ago. There was no social media, the market was different (there were six or eight network carriers, not three), and the average experience today is measurably worse. Now any differentiator is more meaningful. (Beyond Y issues, look at Mint, and how Mint will likely disrupt TATL.)
United is certainly economically capable of trying (we're not talking about THAT much investment here). But it's utterly incapable culturally. A workforce that has fought every management team since the 1980s and regarded its customer base as "the enemy" for most of that time will not morph into a high-touch quality icon. Ever. As my wife and I used to say about Northwest in its darkest days, you can load the nicest catering money can buy, but if a miserable / resentful FA throws it at your head, it's not very good.
If your cat has taken no interest in your household finances for its entire life, it's not going to suddenly put on a little kitty green eyeshade and do your taxes.
In that sense Kirby perhaps has no choice but to merely play the poor hand he's dealt.
In the airline business, once choice and quality have hit rock bottom, you can place Kirby's bet -- that there is no material amenity or experience design tweak customers will respond to -- or Delta's bet, e.g. that a few small differentiators can move loyalty, demand, and repeat business.
A Delta coach passenger may deplane remembering only that the crew produced hot towels, which probably cost < 3 cents per seat. Better than getting off a United flight remembering only that it took three hours for the first and only drink service and no crew member spoke a word beyond "Drink?"
If your cat has taken no interest in your household finances for its entire life, it's not going to suddenly put on a little kitty green eyeshade and do your taxes.
In that sense Kirby perhaps has no choice but to merely play the poor hand he's dealt.