UA orders 20 E175s, comments on A321XLR

Old Jun 17, 19, 10:25 am
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UA orders 20 E175s, comments on A321XLR

A few bullet points from Bloomberg, based on comments from CFO Gerald Laderman:

-orders 20 new E175, with option to add 19 more
-all E175 are replacements (have to imagine that this is to replace the CRJ7s being converted to 50-seaters)
-says A321XLR is best current TATL 757 replacement; would not replace 767s; XLR could be part of UA’s long-term strategy
-no urgency to replace 757s but that they are costly to use
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Old Jun 17, 19, 11:16 am
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The E75 orders today are E-175SC ("special configuration" or, more to the point, "scope-compliant") which will be fitted with 70 seats, and probably replace the 20 CR7s on the Mesa CPA. The CR7s will then go for CR5 conversion, I expect.

The 19 options presumably could/would replace the 19 CR7s on the SkyWest CPA, which primarily serve ASE and other ski towns. If that comes to pass, it would mean that all 255 70+ seaters permitted under the current pilot contract would be of the E-Jet variety (good for pax).

I wouldn't expect UA to exercise these final 19 options until the ASE runway expansion is on track for completion, however, because the CR7 is the only option for service, given current operating restrictions.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 11:29 am
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
The E75 orders today are E-175SC ("special configuration" or, more to the point, "scope-compliant") which will be fitted with 70 seats, and probably replace the 20 CR7s on the Mesa CPA. The CR7s will then go for CR5 conversion, I expect.

The 19 options presumably could/would replace the 19 CR7s on the SkyWest CPA, which primarily serve ASE and other ski towns. If that comes to pass, it would mean that all 255 70+ seaters permitted under the current pilot contract would be of the E-Jet variety (good for pax).

I wouldn't expect UA to exercise these final 19 options until the ASE runway expansion is on track for completion, however, because the CR7 is the only option for service, given current operating restrictions.
Don't ever hold your breath for anything in Aspen. Do what they want, it will still be a dangerous airport unless they move it miles to the north.https://www.aspentimes.com/news/aspe...ill-they-come/
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Old Jun 17, 19, 11:37 am
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Originally Posted by PsiFighter37 View Post
A few bullet points from Bloomberg, based on comments from CFO Gerald Laderman:

-orders 20 new E175, with option to add 19 more
-all E175 are replacements (have to imagine that this is to replace the CRJ7s being converted to 50-seaters)
-says A321XLR is best current TATL 757 replacement; would not replace 767s; XLR could be part of UA’s long-term strategy
-no urgency to replace 757s but that they are costly to use
I don't see the piece on UA's order, the big news is that Udvar-Hazy's Air Lease just made relatively large orders for the A321XLR and for the A220. Seals of approval to to speak. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...from-air-lease

I found this line interesting:

" With the A321XLR -- for “extra long range” -- Airbus has succeeded in beating Boeing to market with a new offering for middle-distance routes, such as between central Europe and the U.S. heartland. Boeing has been weighing a $15 billion investment in a jet it calls the new midmarket airplane, or NMA. But the U.S. planemaker has put those plans on the back burner until the 737 Max, which was grounded after crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia, gets the green light from regulators to fly again".

I had wondered if Boeing - having gotten in a war with its union's 15 years ago, and sharply cut engineering resources to try to increase its profitability - could walk and chew gum at the same time.

The reality is that Boeing was going to do a new clean sheet single aisle plane, but that got derailed by the 787 issues, then Airbus beat Boeing to the punch with the neo, causing Boeing to jerry rig the max, and now the poor design of the MAX is creating issues with the MoM 797, allowing Airbus to get a jump with the A321xlr while also scooping up the A220 line on the cheap.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 11:45 am
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Boeing has been looking for (and using) every single excuse possible to avoid committing to the NMA... it's been that way for years and predates the MAX debacle. Boeing's BOD would prefer to avoid the capital expense of launching an entirely new mid-market product line, because the writing is on the wall that a 737 replacement is going to be on the table sooner rather than later, especially if there are any high-profile MAX cancellations. It desperately wants Delta and United to follow American's lead and accept a cheaper, marginally lighter 787-8 as a 767 replacement, and neither are biting, at least at current pricing.

Originally Posted by COSPILOT View Post
Don't ever hold your breath for anything in Aspen. Do what they want, it will still be a dangerous airport unless they move it miles to the north.https://www.aspentimes.com/news/aspe...ill-they-come/
Exactly. So until then, there will be a CR7 niche in the UAX portfolio... United is not going to cede its historically dominant, profitable position in ASE.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 11:45 am
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
I don't see the piece on UA's order, the big news is that Udvar-Hazy's Air Lease just made relatively large orders for the A321XLR and for the A220. Seals of approval to to speak. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...from-air-lease

I found this line interesting:

" With the A321XLR -- for “extra long range” -- Airbus has succeeded in beating Boeing to market with a new offering for middle-distance routes, such as between central Europe and the U.S. heartland. Boeing has been weighing a $15 billion investment in a jet it calls the new midmarket airplane, or NMA. But the U.S. planemaker has put those plans on the back burner until the 737 Max, which was grounded after crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia, gets the green light from regulators to fly again".

I had wondered if Boeing - having gotten in a war with its union's 15 years ago, and sharply cut engineering resources to try to increase its profitability - could walk and chew gum at the same time.

The reality is that Boeing was going to do a new clean sheet single aisle plane, but that got derailed by the 787 issues, then Airbus beat Boeing to the punch with the neo, causing Boeing to jerry rig the max, and now the poor design of the MAX is creating issues with the MoM 797, allowing Airbus to get a jump with the A321xlr while also scooping up the A220 line on the cheap.
As much as I agree with you, I want to see things at the end of the show. I don't think Boeing is in complete crisis mode yet, but it did cross my mind that instead of using employee parking lots at headquarters, they should maybe figure out how to move new airplanes to the empty Sears parking lots around the United States.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 12:40 pm
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
Boeing has been looking for (and using) every single excuse possible to avoid committing to the NMA... it's been that way for years and predates the MAX debacle. Boeing's BOD would prefer to avoid the capital expense of launching an entirely new mid-market product line, because the writing is on the wall that a 737 replacement is going to be on the table sooner rather than later, especially if there are any high-profile MAX cancellations. It desperately wants Delta and United to follow American's lead and accept a cheaper, marginally lighter 787-8 as a 767 replacement, and neither are biting, at least at current pricing.



Exactly. So until then, there will be a CR7 niche in the UAX portfolio... United is not going to cede its historically dominant, profitable position in ASE.
Presumably the shelved 787-3 with a 5-6000nm range, much reduced weight, smaller/de-rated engines, and maybe a smaller wing would do most of the job. If Boeing had bought up the CSeries instead of AB, they could've used that to the 160 seat range instead of re-re-re-warming the 737. EVen at lower production margins than they'd ordinarily accept, it would probably be a better bet for Boeing than developing a new aircraft.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 1:38 pm
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Would be nice to see A220s flying in the US. The YouTube video reviews I've seen of the cabin look really nice and so much better than 737/A318/19/20/21.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 1:48 pm
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Originally Posted by mhy View Post
Would be nice to see A220s flying in the US. The YouTube video reviews I've seen of the cabin look really nice and so much better than 737/A318/19/20/21.
Delta has some in service already ...
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Old Jun 17, 19, 2:17 pm
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Originally Posted by lazytom View Post
Delta has some in service already ...
And they already look pretty damn nice on the inside.

https://thepointsguy.com/guides/delt...-where-to-sit/
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Old Jun 17, 19, 2:21 pm
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Originally Posted by mhy View Post
Would be nice to see A220s flying in the US. The YouTube video reviews I've seen of the cabin look really nice and so much better than 737/A318/19/20/21.
DL has already taken delivery of 14 A220 and flying on various routes out of LGA/DTW/SLC and soon SEA/MSP.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 2:40 pm
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Originally Posted by EWR764 View Post
I wouldn't expect UA to exercise these final 19 options until the ASE runway expansion is on track for completion, however, because the CR7 is the only option for service, given current operating restrictions.
That, or they old CR7s could continue the ASE service in their new CRJ-550 configuration. You lose 20 seats but gain premium seats which they might be able to sell in the premium ASE market.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 3:30 pm
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Originally Posted by LarryJ View Post
That, or they old CR7s could continue the ASE service in their new CRJ-550 configuration. You lose 20 seats but gain premium seats which they might be able to sell in the premium ASE market.
I was wondering about that... I heard rumors there would be a substantial performance hit to get the CR7 under the 65k MGTOW scope limit (10k less than currently; plus UAX has ASE-IAH/ORD/LAX/SFO that push the CR7 range envelope as it is).
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Old Jun 17, 19, 4:37 pm
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Originally Posted by bob_the_d View Post
And they already look pretty damn nice on the inside.

https://thepointsguy.com/guides/delt...-where-to-sit/
With unlike the joke of bathrooms, and particularly sinks, Boeing is cramming in, really, really nice restrooms. This is the type of comfortable plane that we will never see the pinheads at Boeing making.
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Old Jun 17, 19, 4:41 pm
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
With unlike the joke of bathrooms, and particularly sinks, Boeing is cramming in, really, really nice restrooms. This is the type of comfortable plane that we will never see the pinheads at Boeing making.
Lavatories, including the various space saver configurations for Airbus and Boeing aircraft, are a customer-selected option.

The design and engineering of these lavatories was at the request of the airlines WHO BUY THE AIRPLANES.
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