FA on SYD-SFO insists 'rule book' prohibits babies from crying 'for more than 5 mins'
Sep 28, 2018, 2:28 pm
#61
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: RDU
Posts: 5,242
I like children. I don't like screaming children. I can never recall a screaming adult on my flights. I can remember at least one screaming child. I shouldn't have to fly private to get away from screaming children. Am I sympathetic, yea, I guess I am. But that doesn't mean I enjoy listening to a kid screaming for hours, which has happened to me.
Sep 28, 2018, 2:41 pm
#62
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York NY
Programs: UA Gold, CO Plat, CO Million Miler
Posts: 2,617
For once, UA handles a potential bad PR problem in the right way
Maybe UA is starting to realize that potential PR problems can be headed off with prompt action. The story says it all.
https://nypost.com/2018/09/28/united...-unacceptable/
https://nypost.com/2018/09/28/united...-unacceptable/
Sep 28, 2018, 3:07 pm
#63
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
...I once woke up to find a salad spilled all over my clothes because the baby next to me had knocked over a meal tray. I have never once complained about any of this because it is simply a part of commercial air travel,.... I do think in that case the parents should have apologized. But general crying is nothing to apologize for....
I think there is an general expectation that parents have a responsibility to manage their children whether successful or not. When they fail and it affects others (ie salad being spilled on clothes), I think an apology is in order at minimum. I'd say the parent should pay your dry cleaning bill as well as the parent is responsible for the child's actions. As for crying, I think duration does matter. At some point, the parent is either failing to manage the baby or there may be a problem with the baby (sickness/injury, etc). Maybe there is some FA rule/responsibility to take action if a baby is crying for a "very long" time to see medical attention is needed.
As for this specific incident, we've only really hard from one side. But at least the UA PR team is handling it.
Sep 28, 2018, 8:31 pm
#64
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
Sep 29, 2018, 1:06 am
#65
formerly 1984SW
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Merida, Yucatan, Mexico
Programs: UA
Posts: 1,058
Sorry, but IMO having salad spilled all over your clothes whether it is due to a baby, drunk passenger, turbulence, etc should never be considered "part of commercial air travel"
I think there is an general expectation that parents have a responsibility to manage their children whether successful or not. When they fail and it affects others (ie salad being spilled on clothes), I think an apology is in order at minimum. I'd say the parent should pay your dry cleaning bill as well as the parent is responsible for the child's actions. As for crying, I think duration does matter. At some point, the parent is either failing to manage the baby or there may be a problem with the baby (sickness/injury, etc). Maybe there is some FA rule/responsibility to take action if a baby is crying for a "very long" time to see medical attention is needed.
I think there is an general expectation that parents have a responsibility to manage their children whether successful or not. When they fail and it affects others (ie salad being spilled on clothes), I think an apology is in order at minimum. I'd say the parent should pay your dry cleaning bill as well as the parent is responsible for the child's actions. As for crying, I think duration does matter. At some point, the parent is either failing to manage the baby or there may be a problem with the baby (sickness/injury, etc). Maybe there is some FA rule/responsibility to take action if a baby is crying for a "very long" time to see medical attention is needed.
I'm not sure it's just Japan, either. On an OZ ICN-JFK flight in J I succeeded in securing a coveted window seat in the forward A380 J cabin upstairs. Only five rows, quite a nice intimate atmosphere. BUT, there was a family of Korean passengers in the middle seats with an absolutely out-of-control brat (sorry, there's no other polite way to put it) jumping up and down in the seat screeching and throwing items at other passengers, and running around the cabin doing the same. After about three hours of this, I moved back to the rear J cabin (luckily there were empty seats) and the cabin crew advised me I couldn't do that and told me to return to my assigned seat. I patiently explained the "issue" with the child and they saw absolutely no problem with how the child was behaving. After a short standoff, they let me stay at my new, blissfully quiet, seat.
I'm sympathetic to a parent with a crying infant when they are at least attempting to soothe the child, but with an older child (the above-mentioned one was about five?) I don't have a lot of tolerance for the situation.
Sep 29, 2018, 9:37 am
#67
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Austin, TX - AUS
Programs: AA Platinum, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, Marriott
Posts: 1,625
The captain intervened. Normally when the captain becomes involved in FA and passenger disputes, it doesn't go well for the passenger as pilots usually side with the FAs. Since the captain was apologetic and appeared to sympathize with the mother (and more importantly did not divert the flight or have the mother arrested upon arrival), that leads me to believe the FA was on a power trip.
Sep 29, 2018, 9:44 am
#68
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Sep 29, 2018, 5:28 pm
#69
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,195
I think the FA (in question) underestimated the protective instincts of a mother and their young offspring. No mother wants her child crying and in an enclosed space like a plane will do everything to comfort the child. My son first flew (in coach) at four months of age and crying was limited and the only way they can communicate at that age. Kudos to United for trying to do the right thing and apologize and refund the ticket.
I would modify that to say no good mother. Unfortunately there are a rare few in the obnoxious minority that ignore when their child is crying, who think that the ignore them and it will go away rule of parenting is good, etc. and encountering them in an enclosed, confined space is terrible. But even then, it's not against the law. It's just bad parenting and rude.
Being based in Orlando, I am exposed to out of control children and their parents that simply refuse to take any corrective action, on nearly every flight.
I have seen many parents put on headphones and completely ignore their children's tantrums.
I have seen many Flight Attendants ignore the above.
Ultimately parents must control their children when they are in confined, public places.
Being a Father and Grandfather that has traveled with my own from infancy, it is easy to manage your children (most of the time) with a little bit of preparation.
Bring drinks, food, toys/games, etc. Talk to your children. When that doesn't work, Over The Counter Motion Sickness medicines will help them sleep.
That said, the FAA is failing the flying public by allowing "lap" children. This is a major safety issue.
When severe turbulence is encountered or their is an "emergency" landing, lap children become projectiles, can become severely injured or die, and can injure other passengers.
Finally, does a passenger in Business or First Class who has potentially paid upwards of $10,000 for their seat in order to enjoy a comfortable, peaceful, and quiet flight have the right to be free from screaming and kicking lap children who are essentially flying for free? Absolutely.
I have seen many parents put on headphones and completely ignore their children's tantrums.
I have seen many Flight Attendants ignore the above.
Ultimately parents must control their children when they are in confined, public places.
Being a Father and Grandfather that has traveled with my own from infancy, it is easy to manage your children (most of the time) with a little bit of preparation.
Bring drinks, food, toys/games, etc. Talk to your children. When that doesn't work, Over The Counter Motion Sickness medicines will help them sleep.
That said, the FAA is failing the flying public by allowing "lap" children. This is a major safety issue.
When severe turbulence is encountered or their is an "emergency" landing, lap children become projectiles, can become severely injured or die, and can injure other passengers.
Finally, does a passenger in Business or First Class who has potentially paid upwards of $10,000 for their seat in order to enjoy a comfortable, peaceful, and quiet flight have the right to be free from screaming and kicking lap children who are essentially flying for free? Absolutely.
Sep 29, 2018, 9:51 pm
#70
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAH / HOU
Programs: UA GS, DL-Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Somethingist, Marriott Titanium Lifetime
Posts: 2,853
I was on a flight this week with a baby crying continuously for half an hour or so. I was extremely thankful for it because it (partially) drowned out the three young adults who were talking extremely loudly about how miserable their lives were.
Sep 30, 2018, 8:17 am
#71
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: RDU
Posts: 5,242
You don't have headphones?
Sep 30, 2018, 9:33 am
#72
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: YKM
Programs: UA, AS
Posts: 135
Well, I dont fly near as much as others on here, but I've had some experiences...
I have a four year old boy. We have flown F/J with him. One time, my wife brought snack packs to give to the others adjacent to us to smooth them out in case he acted up. However, we got told by everyone essentially, "We've been there too. Kids cry, it is ok." It seems most are pretty understanding as long as you try. the story of letting the kids just run crazy would be frustrating.
A few years go I was going someplace and I was surrounded by kids under five. I think between the row in front, mine and the row behind there were five kids including a lap child adjacent to me. Worst part was the lap child. She slept the whole time, but her feet were on my lap practically. Joke was on them, they were going GEG-CDG.
On decent, the row in front of me and behind me both had screamers. Approach in front "stop crying!" Approach behind, "here, chew this...chew chew chew." The mother in front just got more and more agitated and mean. The kids didnt know any different...their ears hurt.
Worst experience ever due to another passanger was a TPA-DTW flight years ago, and it was not a kid. It was an older lady that sat in the row kitty corner to me, She smelled BAD....REALLY BAD. Cat urine bad. The family behind her had some fashion magazines and were scratching the perfume ads like crazy.
I have a four year old boy. We have flown F/J with him. One time, my wife brought snack packs to give to the others adjacent to us to smooth them out in case he acted up. However, we got told by everyone essentially, "We've been there too. Kids cry, it is ok." It seems most are pretty understanding as long as you try. the story of letting the kids just run crazy would be frustrating.
A few years go I was going someplace and I was surrounded by kids under five. I think between the row in front, mine and the row behind there were five kids including a lap child adjacent to me. Worst part was the lap child. She slept the whole time, but her feet were on my lap practically. Joke was on them, they were going GEG-CDG.
On decent, the row in front of me and behind me both had screamers. Approach in front "stop crying!" Approach behind, "here, chew this...chew chew chew." The mother in front just got more and more agitated and mean. The kids didnt know any different...their ears hurt.
Worst experience ever due to another passanger was a TPA-DTW flight years ago, and it was not a kid. It was an older lady that sat in the row kitty corner to me, She smelled BAD....REALLY BAD. Cat urine bad. The family behind her had some fashion magazines and were scratching the perfume ads like crazy.
Sep 30, 2018, 1:30 pm
#74
Join Date: May 2004
Location: BKK
Posts: 261
I empathize with parents on a plane. Really - the responsibility for controlling an irrational human being is a lot to ask for anyone. I think it requires an understanding from all passengers that the parent is doing their best and trying to handle the situation as best as they can. That being said - the parents really need to be trying and doing their best. A plane is not the place to be trying a new diet or sleep schedule. Parents should be prepared to be bringing every distraction they can - I don't care if you only let your child use the iPad 1 hour a day at home. If that is what makes the child stop crying you need to bring it out for as long as possible. If your child is inconsolable be prepared to spend a long time in the lavatory. I have all the sympathy in the world for a parent traveling with kids - seriously, it looks like an awful task and we should not hold them to the same standards we would of business travelers. BUT, they need to be a continuous, actively involved part of keeping their kids calm and quiet. If your kid is screaming and you are not trying to address the situation - that is on YOU. If you are trying and the kid is still making a fuss, that's life.