Should UA develop new hubs/focus cities?
Mar 31, 2019, 9:31 am
#61
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Jun 5, 2019, 12:07 pm
#62
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Has Delta stolen a march on United with today's announcement about expanding service in RDU and BNA? Prevents United from developing only logical hub in North Carolina? Crowds United out of BNA where AA is big? Where does Kirby/United go now if they want a southeast hub?
Jun 5, 2019, 12:55 pm
#63
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Has Delta stolen a march on United with today's announcement about expanding service in RDU and BNA? Prevents United from developing only logical hub in North Carolina? Crowds United out of BNA where AA is big? Where does Kirby/United go now if they want a southeast hub?
Out of RDU, UA looks like they have a decent schedule already to their hubs (I scanned and looking at the schedule today, looks like close to 30 flights on mainline and larger regionals), and they already announced a club there a while ago.
Not sure what DLs announcement really means - are they going to do RDU-a lot of spokes nonstop? That’s not UAs style, anyway. DL also noted CVG as a ‘focus city’, which used to be an actual hub, and despite their PR to try and reclaim it, they used to be at something like over 600 flights a day, and I don’t know what they are at now, but it was down at about 100 at some point not that long ago, and don’t think they’ve really been expanding. Wonder if this ‘focus city’ talk is a way to bring PR to some of their markets, some of which they were expanding already vs. a wholesale change in anything.
Jun 5, 2019, 1:07 pm
#64
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I believe NW had established the focus city at RDU (along with IND and MKE IIRC) pre-DL acquisition. That never really went away, maybe never grew a whole lot either. It seems that the battle for RDU is really between AA who wants to protect their CLT fortress hub and DL who wants to maintain their dominance in the southeast.
Jun 5, 2019, 1:11 pm
#65
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Forget focus cities, United needs to build out its domestic connecting hubs first... I'd rather see resources (airplanes) go into two things:
(1) adding flights/banks at DEN/IAH/IAD, where there is capacity, so UA is more competitive with business-oriented schedules from non-hubs. With some regularity, I find myself on AA or DL metal coming from smaller or medium-size cities because they have better-timed flights or shorter connections over ATL/DFW/CLT to get me where I need to be. I live near a hub and do business in most of United's hubs, so those schedules work better than anyone else, but in non-hub cities, where there's no dominant carrier or nonstop Southwest option, I think it's still a good bet that United will have the fewest flights, most circuitous routings and longest layovers as compared to AA/DL. UA is doing a better job than before, but there's still a long way to go, as a lot of the frequency growth has been UAX, which brings me to my next point...
(2) replacing UAX with mainline; this requires no explanation. AA and DL are still substantially more mainline, across the board, than United. Especially in small to medium-size cities.
Much of Delta's focus city growth will be regional as its small narrowbody (A220/717) frees up some excess DCI capacity to deploy in other opportunistic markets.
(1) adding flights/banks at DEN/IAH/IAD, where there is capacity, so UA is more competitive with business-oriented schedules from non-hubs. With some regularity, I find myself on AA or DL metal coming from smaller or medium-size cities because they have better-timed flights or shorter connections over ATL/DFW/CLT to get me where I need to be. I live near a hub and do business in most of United's hubs, so those schedules work better than anyone else, but in non-hub cities, where there's no dominant carrier or nonstop Southwest option, I think it's still a good bet that United will have the fewest flights, most circuitous routings and longest layovers as compared to AA/DL. UA is doing a better job than before, but there's still a long way to go, as a lot of the frequency growth has been UAX, which brings me to my next point...
(2) replacing UAX with mainline; this requires no explanation. AA and DL are still substantially more mainline, across the board, than United. Especially in small to medium-size cities.
Much of Delta's focus city growth will be regional as its small narrowbody (A220/717) frees up some excess DCI capacity to deploy in other opportunistic markets.
Jun 5, 2019, 1:11 pm
#66
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UA has a few "focus" cities (BOS, FLL, AUS, SEA) that see a great deal more traffic than other spokes. I don't see them adding more, though certainly could re-hublette CLE...
Jun 5, 2019, 2:32 pm
#67
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To some extent, CLE is a focus city for UA. I count something like a half dozen non-hub destinations.
Jun 5, 2019, 4:53 pm
#68
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RDU has been a focus city for DL for sometime now and is not new. See, for example, the following --
https://s2.q4cdn.com/181345880/files...r-Day_2017.pdf
BNA and SJC are new mentions by DL. NW had focus cities in MKE and IND at various times (but not RDU).
https://s2.q4cdn.com/181345880/files...r-Day_2017.pdf
BNA and SJC are new mentions by DL. NW had focus cities in MKE and IND at various times (but not RDU).
Jun 5, 2019, 5:14 pm
#69
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No - but more connectivity between endpoints and hubs would be good. Eg more cities that have daily nonstops to all the domestic hubs (except GUM)
INTL more endpoints, SGN and BKK being my top 2.
INTL more endpoints, SGN and BKK being my top 2.
Jun 9, 2019, 10:58 am
#70
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(1) adding flights/banks at DEN/IAH/IAD, where there is capacity, so UA is more competitive with business-oriented schedules from non-hubs. With some regularity, I find myself on AA or DL metal coming from smaller or medium-size cities because they have better-timed flights or shorter connections over ATL/DFW/CLT to get me where I need to be. I live near a hub and do business in most of United's hubs, so those schedules work better than anyone else, but in non-hub cities, where there's no dominant carrier or nonstop Southwest option, I think it's still a good bet that United will have the fewest flights, most circuitous routings and longest layovers as compared to AA/DL. UA is doing a better job than before, but there's still a long way to go, as a lot of the frequency growth has been UAX, which brings me to my next point...
Jun 9, 2019, 11:19 am
#71
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UA returned to a banked schedule at DEN/ORD/IAH, but I'm talking about adding departure banks (greater frequency) to improve connectivity and schedules at outstations to compete with AA/DL. Both have more full-scale departure banks (DFW/CLT/ATL, mostly) than UA does at its hubs, with the result being better schedules at smaller points of origin.
Jun 9, 2019, 12:27 pm
#72
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Forget focus cities, United needs to build out its domestic connecting hubs first... I'd rather see resources (airplanes) go into two things:
(1) adding flights/banks at DEN/IAH/IAD, where there is capacity, so UA is more competitive with business-oriented schedules from non-hubs. With some regularity, I find myself on AA or DL metal coming from smaller or medium-size cities because they have better-timed flights or shorter connections over ATL/DFW/CLT to get me where I need to be. I live near a hub and do business in most of United's hubs, so those schedules work better than anyone else, but in non-hub cities, where there's no dominant carrier or nonstop Southwest option, I think it's still a good bet that United will have the fewest flights, most circuitous routings and longest layovers as compared to AA/DL. UA is doing a better job than before, but there's still a long way to go, as a lot of the frequency growth has been UAX, which brings me to my next point...
(2) replacing UAX with mainline; this requires no explanation. AA and DL are still substantially more mainline, across the board, than United. Especially in small to medium-size cities.
Much of Delta's focus city growth will be regional as its small narrowbody (A220/717) frees up some excess DCI capacity to deploy in other opportunistic markets.
(1) adding flights/banks at DEN/IAH/IAD, where there is capacity, so UA is more competitive with business-oriented schedules from non-hubs. With some regularity, I find myself on AA or DL metal coming from smaller or medium-size cities because they have better-timed flights or shorter connections over ATL/DFW/CLT to get me where I need to be. I live near a hub and do business in most of United's hubs, so those schedules work better than anyone else, but in non-hub cities, where there's no dominant carrier or nonstop Southwest option, I think it's still a good bet that United will have the fewest flights, most circuitous routings and longest layovers as compared to AA/DL. UA is doing a better job than before, but there's still a long way to go, as a lot of the frequency growth has been UAX, which brings me to my next point...
(2) replacing UAX with mainline; this requires no explanation. AA and DL are still substantially more mainline, across the board, than United. Especially in small to medium-size cities.
Much of Delta's focus city growth will be regional as its small narrowbody (A220/717) frees up some excess DCI capacity to deploy in other opportunistic markets.
Delta is going into secondary markets with large amounts of business traffic because they have the aircraft (A220/B717, lots of larger RJs) to provide a better experience. A few used A319s at UA are just not going to move the equation though.
Jun 9, 2019, 4:09 pm
#73
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Jun 10, 2019, 11:18 pm
#74
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All in all, if you are comparing DL and UA, UA has hubs in larger cities. But comparing UA to AA, UA does not "by far" have the best hub locations, especially considering UA has hubs in slightly fewer markets and sometimes hubs at airports that some may view as less ideal.(IAD vs. DCA, EWR vs. LGA)
Jun 11, 2019, 6:42 am
#75
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Ah I see, so we are going to overlook the fact that AA has hubs in 7 of the top 8 largest Metropolitan Areas. Not to mention, JFK and LAX are the two largest O&D centers in the country, one of which UA doesn't serve and the second, if you are trying to go east of the Mississippi the UA LAX "hub" is severely underserved.
All in all, if you are comparing DL and UA, UA has hubs in larger cities. But comparing UA to AA, UA does not "by far" have the best hub locations, especially considering UA has hubs in slightly fewer markets and sometimes hubs at airports that some may view as less ideal.(IAD vs. DCA, EWR vs. LGA)
All in all, if you are comparing DL and UA, UA has hubs in larger cities. But comparing UA to AA, UA does not "by far" have the best hub locations, especially considering UA has hubs in slightly fewer markets and sometimes hubs at airports that some may view as less ideal.(IAD vs. DCA, EWR vs. LGA)
I also find it strange that you cite UA's network limitations out of LAX and then point to DCA as an example of a more desirable AA hub. DCA is fantastic for Washington local traffic, but in terms of facilities, network and airspace constraints, it's a pretty crappy *hub*.
OTOH, DFW and CLT are two examples of hubs United doesn't have (in terms of frequencies and connectivity), that IMO it really needs to develop. Delta has ATL, but I would argue AA's structural advantage is that it has two such hubs, especially DFW, with a massive, growing and lucrative local market. AA's biggest problem right now is that it does not run a good operation... much like UA circa 2012-2015.