My disappointment with 1K, How to get more out of your 1K status.
Feb 25, 2018, 6:56 pm
#121
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)The "Easypass" terminology is also long outdated. As in pre-2012 era. It's just going to confuse people. I really discourage linking that page.
Feb 25, 2018, 7:12 pm
#122
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Feb 25, 2018, 7:29 pm
#123
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Feb 26, 2018, 8:30 am
#124
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Morris County, NJ
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Avis Pres, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,305
you are way low. Assuming you are flying 100K BIS for that $20K in PQD, then you are paying 20 c/mi. United in 2017 made a 7.7% margin on a PRASM of 12.43 c/mi. If we assume that you displaced a passenger of the average PRASM then you gave UA 60% more than what the average would have been. Looked at another say, you gave UA roughly an extra $7600 in profit over the average PRASM passenger (who is providing a 7.7% margin.
But that number is low, since if you walked out the door, there would not be on every flight someone taking your place. My guess is that at least 50% of my flights have empty seats on them, YMMV, so your actual contribution is greater.
Elites are VERY important, they are 50% of UA's total revenues, and they (a) provide baseline demand, and (b) they provide ultimately the profit.
But that number is low, since if you walked out the door, there would not be on every flight someone taking your place. My guess is that at least 50% of my flights have empty seats on them, YMMV, so your actual contribution is greater.
Elites are VERY important, they are 50% of UA's total revenues, and they (a) provide baseline demand, and (b) they provide ultimately the profit.
Appreciate the correction to my simplistic view of the world, and of my simplistic view of myself. Guess I'm more important to United than I assume.
Thank you!
edit to add: And yes at this cpm, I'm one of those for whom the multiplier-on-PQD earning comes out ahead... probably not too many of us.
Last edited by dmurphynj; Feb 26, 2018 at 8:37 am
Feb 26, 2018, 8:42 am
#125
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PHX
Programs: AAexp, AC75k, HertzPC, NationalEE, Accor/MariottP, Hilton/HyattG
Posts: 3,614
I lose 1K this year. Being based out of Canada, I had a 95%+ CPU with a bit of flexibility, amazing compensation for IRROPS and overall a positive experience as a 1K for the past 5 years or so. I will miss it... I flew mostly P fares as they are generally so cheap on UA and such an easy way to requalify. Earned so many miles this way during the good days.
I didn't fly too much hub to hub and if I did, I know how many GS and high fare class 1K fly these routes so I prepared myself and booked P or routes where R space is available to use the RPUs.
What I won't miss are the 50% of the flights I did on Express with the snack baskets and no meals. Mainly YEG-ORD and YEG-SFO. Ugh. The worst. And the CR2 for almost 3 hours YEG-DEN. The yellow sky check 1K tag worked almost all the time, thankfully.
As for the GPUs, it's always been that way
Hope you have better lucky this year!
I didn't fly too much hub to hub and if I did, I know how many GS and high fare class 1K fly these routes so I prepared myself and booked P or routes where R space is available to use the RPUs.
What I won't miss are the 50% of the flights I did on Express with the snack baskets and no meals. Mainly YEG-ORD and YEG-SFO. Ugh. The worst. And the CR2 for almost 3 hours YEG-DEN. The yellow sky check 1K tag worked almost all the time, thankfully.
As for the GPUs, it's always been that way
Hope you have better lucky this year!
Feb 26, 2018, 9:15 am
#126
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Programs: UA 1k, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 363
Some awesome advice all round, great thread, thanks all.
I just called 1k desk (for only the 2nd time this year ) - agree how quick they answer! Not just that, they Rock!
Just change my LAX to PBI on 28th March to JUST LAX to EWR so that I do not lose a RPU if LAX does not clear but EWR to PBI does.
She just changed my PB to LHR on 2nd of April from S class to W class and waived the change fee - so only had to pay $81 . She then applied the GPU and said I was number 1 on the list with 32 open seats, she said I have a good chance of clearing ( do they email me when it clears?) , so guess I need to go look at where to sit on 767-400 in J .....I know virtually everything on most planes regarding where to sit in E+ , but nothing about J.
She also said if the EWR to LHR does not clear, but the PBI to EWR does, you can call and get the GPU back, which is cool (although there is rarely upgrades on that route as way too many rich people buying 1st outright )
This 1K thing this is pretty cool
lol
I know how you feel, I was only Gold when I lived in Tuscon , but had Canada as my sales territory, I did about 20 flights p/a to Toronto , via EWR on the nightmare 145...I would bok a flight where I could get exit row aisle seat, and then lift up the arm rest. Also did Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton... needless to say, no many upgrades as a Gold (but for me , the priority was the legroom at booking over anything else).
Like I wasn't already obsessed enough with checking the UA app every 2 hours to check on seats etc on my upcoming flights, or looking to see if I had cleared early so I can make sure I do not get put in a bulkhead J on upgrade (would rather have E+ than bulkhead J, as My knees ache if I cannot straighten legs out fully)
I now have a new, way more time consuming obsession - checking each individual leg to look at the inventory lol.
How often do you check, how often does it change? should I check daily, or just weekly, or just a few days before flight ?
thx
I just called 1k desk (for only the 2nd time this year ) - agree how quick they answer! Not just that, they Rock!
Just change my LAX to PBI on 28th March to JUST LAX to EWR so that I do not lose a RPU if LAX does not clear but EWR to PBI does.
She just changed my PB to LHR on 2nd of April from S class to W class and waived the change fee - so only had to pay $81 . She then applied the GPU and said I was number 1 on the list with 32 open seats, she said I have a good chance of clearing ( do they email me when it clears?) , so guess I need to go look at where to sit on 767-400 in J .....I know virtually everything on most planes regarding where to sit in E+ , but nothing about J.
She also said if the EWR to LHR does not clear, but the PBI to EWR does, you can call and get the GPU back, which is cool (although there is rarely upgrades on that route as way too many rich people buying 1st outright )
This 1K thing this is pretty cool
lolI lose 1K this year. Being based out of Canada, I had a 95%+ CPU with a bit of flexibility, amazing compensation for IRROPS and overall a positive experience as a 1K for the past 5 years or so. I will miss it... I flew mostly P fares as they are generally so cheap on UA and such an easy way to requalify. Earned so many miles this way during the good days.
I didn't fly too much hub to hub and if I did, I know how many GS and high fare class 1K fly these routes so I prepared myself and booked P or routes where R space is available to use the RPUs.
What I won't miss are the 50% of the flights I did on Express with the snack baskets and no meals. Mainly YEG-ORD and YEG-SFO. Ugh. The worst. And the CR2 for almost 3 hours YEG-DEN. The yellow sky check 1K tag worked almost all the time, thankfully.
As for the GPUs, it's always been that way
Hope you have better lucky this year!
I didn't fly too much hub to hub and if I did, I know how many GS and high fare class 1K fly these routes so I prepared myself and booked P or routes where R space is available to use the RPUs.
What I won't miss are the 50% of the flights I did on Express with the snack baskets and no meals. Mainly YEG-ORD and YEG-SFO. Ugh. The worst. And the CR2 for almost 3 hours YEG-DEN. The yellow sky check 1K tag worked almost all the time, thankfully.
As for the GPUs, it's always been that way
Hope you have better lucky this year!
This has been touched on a bit, but to go into detail for these flights:
06MAR18 PBIIAH UA1161 : F5 A3 C4 D3 Z0
06MAR18 IAHLIR UA1512 : J6 P6 PN3 R2 IN0
13MAR18 LIRIAH UA1516 : J9 P9 R9 IN8 I0
13MAR18 IAHPBI UA2114 : F9 A4 C7 D4 Z1 P1
The PBI-IAH is going to be a lost cause, probably even with an RPU. IAH-LIR is pretty interesting - it doesn't look great but has 2 seats available to confirm the upgrade immediately. For that many sold in J already, RM sure doesn't think they can sell more seats.. this could be a good use of your RPUs (note the 6pm IAH-LIR is R9 I5, so an easy CPU if you choose to SDC to it). On the return, LIR-IAH will be a cakewalk of a CPU and IAH-PBI is doubtful.
As noted, if you clear an RPU and want to try for CPU, you need your original fare class available (W) and this is of course a risky proposition. Generally speaking, you should do it about 100 hours before departure so that you are eligible for the 1K CPU window sweep. For a flight with only 6 seats left in J right now, I wouldn't risk it.
06MAR18 PBIIAH UA1161 : F5 A3 C4 D3 Z0
06MAR18 IAHLIR UA1512 : J6 P6 PN3 R2 IN0
13MAR18 LIRIAH UA1516 : J9 P9 R9 IN8 I0
13MAR18 IAHPBI UA2114 : F9 A4 C7 D4 Z1 P1
The PBI-IAH is going to be a lost cause, probably even with an RPU. IAH-LIR is pretty interesting - it doesn't look great but has 2 seats available to confirm the upgrade immediately. For that many sold in J already, RM sure doesn't think they can sell more seats.. this could be a good use of your RPUs (note the 6pm IAH-LIR is R9 I5, so an easy CPU if you choose to SDC to it). On the return, LIR-IAH will be a cakewalk of a CPU and IAH-PBI is doubtful.
As noted, if you clear an RPU and want to try for CPU, you need your original fare class available (W) and this is of course a risky proposition. Generally speaking, you should do it about 100 hours before departure so that you are eligible for the 1K CPU window sweep. For a flight with only 6 seats left in J right now, I wouldn't risk it.
I now have a new, way more time consuming obsession - checking each individual leg to look at the inventory lol.
How often do you check, how often does it change? should I check daily, or just weekly, or just a few days before flight ?
thx
Last edited by l etoile; Feb 26, 2018 at 11:02 am
Feb 26, 2018, 9:32 am
#127
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Posts: 14,429
Sometimes, not always.
Um, no, if you have not spent time on CRJ 200 you don't know .... far, far worse than ERJ 145. YYJ-SFO is CRJ, and it ain't pleasant. I'd rather connect in YVR and take the cropduster from the island.
I'd take 145 over that seven days a week and twice on a Sunday.
I'd take 145 over that seven days a week and twice on a Sunday.
Feb 26, 2018, 9:43 am
#128
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Programs: UA 1k, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 363
Sometimes, not always.
Um, no, if you have not spent time on CRJ 200 you don't know .... far, far worse than ERJ 145. YYJ-SFO is CRJ, and it ain't pleasant. I'd rather connect in YVR and take the cropduster from the island.
I'd take 145 over that seven days a week and twice on a Sunday.
Um, no, if you have not spent time on CRJ 200 you don't know .... far, far worse than ERJ 145. YYJ-SFO is CRJ, and it ain't pleasant. I'd rather connect in YVR and take the cropduster from the island.
I'd take 145 over that seven days a week and twice on a Sunday.
Feb 26, 2018, 11:01 am
#129
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Excellent analysis -- and yes my final cpm in 2017 was approximately 19.80 c/mi. (116,792 PQM's on $23,125 PQD.) Again, nowhere near GS levels but still not insignificant... and all 100% domestic revenue, so no JV sharing or any of that either.
Appreciate the correction to my simplistic view of the world, and of my simplistic view of myself. Guess I'm more important to United than I assume.
Thank you!
edit to add: And yes at this cpm, I'm one of those for whom the multiplier-on-PQD earning comes out ahead... probably not too many of us.
Appreciate the correction to my simplistic view of the world, and of my simplistic view of myself. Guess I'm more important to United than I assume.
Thank you!
edit to add: And yes at this cpm, I'm one of those for whom the multiplier-on-PQD earning comes out ahead... probably not too many of us.
There has long been a view on FT that elites are over-entitled and should be handled just like a "real business" (with Comcast or ATT being i guess their view of a real business) would handle them, by showing them the back side of the hand. While there were clearly a few 1Ks qualifying on very little spending (e.g. I have a relative who would go SFO-IAD every other week, and bought nesting tickets, so it was always cheap) overall elites are those folks who by paying more to travel, keep the lights on.
If an airline offers really good service, well then they can scrimp on FF benefits (the route DL took in making skypeso redemption a sad joke). But when things are not so swimmingly, is when an airline needs it's loyalty program as a backstop, which is why as a business matter I think UA was massively stupid to cut costs by axing FF benefits.
Feb 26, 2018, 11:23 am
#130
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Morris County, NJ
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Avis Pres, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,305
When they did the 5x, etc PQD I ran the numbers and found that at about 18-19 c/mi (going from memory, I can't find where i posted the analysis) one came out ahead under the new rules.
There has long been a view on FT that elites are over-entitled and should be handled just like a "real business" (with Comcast or ATT being i guess their view of a real business) would handle them, by showing them the back side of the hand. While there were clearly a few 1Ks qualifying on very little spending (e.g. I have a relative who would go SFO-IAD every other week, and bought nesting tickets, so it was always cheap) overall elites are those folks who by paying more to travel, keep the lights on.
If an airline offers really good service, well then they can scrimp on FF benefits (the route DL took in making skypeso redemption a sad joke). But when things are not so swimmingly, is when an airline needs it's loyalty program as a backstop, which is why as a business matter I think UA was massively stupid to cut costs by axing FF benefits.
There has long been a view on FT that elites are over-entitled and should be handled just like a "real business" (with Comcast or ATT being i guess their view of a real business) would handle them, by showing them the back side of the hand. While there were clearly a few 1Ks qualifying on very little spending (e.g. I have a relative who would go SFO-IAD every other week, and bought nesting tickets, so it was always cheap) overall elites are those folks who by paying more to travel, keep the lights on.
If an airline offers really good service, well then they can scrimp on FF benefits (the route DL took in making skypeso redemption a sad joke). But when things are not so swimmingly, is when an airline needs it's loyalty program as a backstop, which is why as a business matter I think UA was massively stupid to cut costs by axing FF benefits.
As you said, a solid, robust FF program can really be what saves an airline in time of crisis. What really blows me away about it all is that the pre-Oscar management were all there for the Bethune era at CO. They should know, read, understand and comprehend From Worst to First from cover to cover. They should be able to quote it chapter and verse! What you're saying is EXACTLY what Gordon extolls in his book. CO wasn't perfect -- far from it -- but when he was trying to right the ship and keep it from sure doom, the first place he turned to? Frequent flyers. As I recall from the book, he threw a party at his home for the real, true top tier folks and basically said "we're sorry." Then, he took the next tier, assigned a list to each and every one of his executives, and made them call and apologize too. And put back the cuts. Reinstate the FF program the way it was.
Simple stuff, but brilliant. I feel like the same would work at modern-day United. We're not "that far" off from being an amazing airline. The fundamentals are there - we're not minutes from bankruptcy; we're not saddled with a junk fleet; we don't have labor ready to walk out; we don't have oil prices pushing $150/barrel. They have a handle on the foundation - what's there is actually solid. Some minor tuning, tweaks, fixes would turn this from an airline that's just OK to something incredible. Something worth crowing about.
Just gotta play the small ball game now... and that's where United seems to fall down every.damn.time. Why??
Feb 26, 2018, 12:06 pm
#131
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Francisco
Programs: UA MM Plat, UA 1MM, Hilton Lifetime Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold, CLEAR, AS MVP Gold
Posts: 3,621
Those people earn my respect. I don't think that I could choose to fly UA that many times.
I do think that UA is missing out on a HUGE PR opportunity by not totalling up the value of 1k (on down) benefits that a flier accrued the last year. Total up the baggage fees, the change fees, the value of a CPU/RPU/GPU that clear (fare difference at clearing/booking). E+ seating would be what? $50+ per flight? Value of redeemed miles for flights. I almost bet for people that have GPUs clear that they could have more in benefit 'value' than the fares they pay.
At the very least it would be a good way to show to corp expense control that there is a value to choosing UA.
I do think that UA is missing out on a HUGE PR opportunity by not totalling up the value of 1k (on down) benefits that a flier accrued the last year. Total up the baggage fees, the change fees, the value of a CPU/RPU/GPU that clear (fare difference at clearing/booking). E+ seating would be what? $50+ per flight? Value of redeemed miles for flights. I almost bet for people that have GPUs clear that they could have more in benefit 'value' than the fares they pay.
At the very least it would be a good way to show to corp expense control that there is a value to choosing UA.
Feb 26, 2018, 12:13 pm
#132
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Morris County, NJ
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Avis Pres, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,305
Maybe I'm biased but Domestic 1K's - especially segment earners - deserve something special because it really is a special form of torture. We don't get wine flights or truffles or pajamas or any of that. It's a special day when I get a gauze blanket.
Sky Greyhound indeed....
Feb 26, 2018, 12:15 pm
#133
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: UA 1K; *G, AA Plat
Posts: 1,700
So glad I get to do just enough transcons to make 1K on miles... I "only" had 92 segments last year. Otherwise, it's EWR-CMH-EWR. EWR-ATL-EWR. EWR-TPA-EWR. EWR-MCO-EWR. EWR-DEN-COS-DEN-EWR. Or, like last week - EWR-ATL-SFO-IAH-EWR.
Maybe I'm biased but Domestic 1K's - especially segment earners - deserve something special because it really is a special form of torture. We don't get wine flights or truffles or pajamas or any of that. It's a special day when I get a gauze blanket.
Sky Greyhound indeed....
Maybe I'm biased but Domestic 1K's - especially segment earners - deserve something special because it really is a special form of torture. We don't get wine flights or truffles or pajamas or any of that. It's a special day when I get a gauze blanket.
Sky Greyhound indeed....
Feb 26, 2018, 12:18 pm
#134
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Morris County, NJ
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Avis Pres, Marriott Plat
Posts: 2,305
Most flights are too short for either BOB meals, or for me to even partake in a free drink if I have to drive when I land. I won't mix the two.
If I were doing LAX-IAD, absolutely, it's a really nice perk (and I DO take advantage of it...)
But the only segment(s) on my usual routes where it applies can sometimes be EWR-DFW and EWR-DEN. Otherwise, most of them are too short to get anything but a carb box (no thanks, I'd rather have the protein bar in my bag.). And even EWR-DFW is iffy because probably 80% of the time I'm on an ERJ. So no BOB but the carb bombs.
Feb 26, 2018, 12:27 pm
#135
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: UA 1K; *G, AA Plat
Posts: 1,700
Yes and no...
Most flights are too short for either BOB meals, or for me to even partake in a free drink if I have to drive when I land. I won't mix the two.
If I were doing LAX-IAD, absolutely, it's a really nice perk (and I DO take advantage of it...)
But the only segment(s) on my usual routes where it applies can sometimes be EWR-DFW and EWR-DEN. Otherwise, most of them are too short to get anything but a carb box (no thanks, I'd rather have the protein bar in my bag.). And even EWR-DFW is iffy because probably 80% of the time I'm on an ERJ. So no BOB but the carb bombs.
Most flights are too short for either BOB meals, or for me to even partake in a free drink if I have to drive when I land. I won't mix the two.
If I were doing LAX-IAD, absolutely, it's a really nice perk (and I DO take advantage of it...)
But the only segment(s) on my usual routes where it applies can sometimes be EWR-DFW and EWR-DEN. Otherwise, most of them are too short to get anything but a carb box (no thanks, I'd rather have the protein bar in my bag.). And even EWR-DFW is iffy because probably 80% of the time I'm on an ERJ. So no BOB but the carb bombs.