Oct 29, 2018, 2:14 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
UA has started installing Premium Plus / Premium Economy seats in 772s and 773s. Other long haul aircraft will also be receiving these new seats.
For 77x it is a 2-4-2 (vs economy 3-4-3) with 3 rows - 24 seats
For 76x it is believe it will be 2-2-2 (vs 2-3-2) with 3 rows ( and maybe a partial row) - 22 seats
For 78x it is believed it will be 2-3-2 (vs 3-3-3) with 3 rows - 21 seats
UA has not yet started selling this new cabin but has restructured its fare class -- which appears to be in preparation of selling the new cabin (and removed 3-class F)
In the meantime, the Premium Plus cabin is being treated as an extension of E+ and those with E+ access can select the new seats.
In many cases UA is initially using an interim seat maps, such as https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1926142-interim-772-seat-map-polaris-potentially-premium-economy-2018-a.html
Things start to firm up about 2 days prior but last minute changes can happen
For 77x it is a 2-4-2 (vs economy 3-4-3) with 3 rows - 24 seats
For 76x it is believe it will be 2-2-2 (vs 2-3-2) with 3 rows ( and maybe a partial row) - 22 seats
For 78x it is believed it will be 2-3-2 (vs 3-3-3) with 3 rows - 21 seats
UA has not yet started selling this new cabin but has restructured its fare class -- which appears to be in preparation of selling the new cabin (and removed 3-class F)
In the meantime, the Premium Plus cabin is being treated as an extension of E+ and those with E+ access can select the new seats.
In many cases UA is initially using an interim seat maps, such as https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1926142-interim-772-seat-map-polaris-potentially-premium-economy-2018-a.html
Things start to firm up about 2 days prior but last minute changes can happen
Real Premium Economy is Coming [Update: UA studying "Real" Prem Y in domestic market]
Jun 13, 2018, 11:40 pm
#631
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
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Posts: 6,447
Just because they are charging a certain price doesn't exactly mean they are getting that price.
Jun 13, 2018, 11:54 pm
#632
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Agreed. UA vs SQ on SFO-HKG-SFO in Aug, Sep, Oct & Nov:
Aug, SQ Econ / PE = 920 / 1150
Aug, UA Econ / W = 635 / 1209
Sep, SQ Econ / PE = 720 / 950
Sep, UA Econ / W = 450 / 1210
Oct, SQ Econ / PE = 720 / 950
Oct, UA Econ / W = 450 / 1210
Nov, SQ Econ / PE = 750 / 950
Nov, UA Econ / W = 450 / 1210
Nov, UA V = 450 / 1470
Nov, UA Q = 450 / 1790
Based on these numbers, it looks like the new PE fare should equal the current W fare -- at most.
Aug, SQ Econ / PE = 920 / 1150
Aug, UA Econ / W = 635 / 1209
Sep, SQ Econ / PE = 720 / 950
Sep, UA Econ / W = 450 / 1210
Oct, SQ Econ / PE = 720 / 950
Oct, UA Econ / W = 450 / 1210
Nov, SQ Econ / PE = 750 / 950
Nov, UA Econ / W = 450 / 1210
Nov, UA V = 450 / 1470
Nov, UA Q = 450 / 1790
Based on these numbers, it looks like the new PE fare should equal the current W fare -- at most.
Jun 14, 2018, 12:09 am
#633
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: CO
Programs: UA OG-1K, Marriott Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,360
If I read it right, they are not getting much of a premium over their own economy, but it is a fair bump over UAs Y fares. So if the PE competes with PE, UA should be closer to the SQ PE prices, which is a pretty good bump. Now watch UA make it so that higher straight Y fares can up upgraded over PE fares with GPUs..... They give with one hand and slap you with the other it seems.
Jun 14, 2018, 12:19 am
#634
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 183
Jun 14, 2018, 1:51 am
#635
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I don't even believe the testing can last very long.
Taken BE as the example, UA ultimately has to scale back because UA ends up, in many instances, giving out E+ seats than regular Y, resulting an even worse situation.
So when no one buying P+, the seats will ultimately end up with op-up or non-rev.
UA will soon realize UA is losing more money in P+ than ever.
(FWIW - many airlines are not making as much money as they think from PEY.)
Taken BE as the example, UA ultimately has to scale back because UA ends up, in many instances, giving out E+ seats than regular Y, resulting an even worse situation.
So when no one buying P+, the seats will ultimately end up with op-up or non-rev.
UA will soon realize UA is losing more money in P+ than ever.
(FWIW - many airlines are not making as much money as they think from PEY.)
Jun 14, 2018, 1:52 am
#636
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Jun 14, 2018, 2:44 am
#637
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BOS<>NYC<>BKK
Programs: UA 4.3MM LT-GS; AA1MM; Amtrak SE; MAR LT TITAN; PC Plat; HIL DIA; HYA GLOB
Posts: 4,393
Jun 14, 2018, 6:20 am
#638
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 748
Do we know the fare class(es) for PE (P+)? Will they map to NH and LH on codeshares?
Fleet site reports 772 mods begin 8/18 and 787-10 is due later this year.
Asking for a friend...
Fleet site reports 772 mods begin 8/18 and 787-10 is due later this year.
Asking for a friend...
Jun 14, 2018, 8:18 am
#639
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,417
As for fare classes -- I would have expected them to have stopped selling Y fares for whatever buckets they eventually intend to use for P+. I'm able to find TPAC fares for every fare class except G and N; I don't think they'd re-use N. G is a candidate, but since it tends to be used for sale fares, it's also possible that this is a red herring; they just might not offer any sales on the routes I checked.
Jun 14, 2018, 9:14 am
#640
Join Date: May 2015
Programs: All the programs!
Posts: 1,006
Also note this really says nothing about the 787-8 & 787-9. Maybe they will be the next in line for retrofit after the 77W.
Zach Honig has said "Since it’ll take some time for premium economy to roll out throughout the fleet, the cabin will initially be sold as Economy Plus, with regular economy service. "
Zach Honig has said "Since it’ll take some time for premium economy to roll out throughout the fleet, the cabin will initially be sold as Economy Plus, with regular economy service. "
Jun 14, 2018, 10:02 am
#642
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ORF, RIC
Programs: UA LT 1K, 3 MM; Marriott Titanium; IHG Platinum
Posts: 6,958
Neither of these questions has been answered yet. I imagine they'd need to update the codeshare agreement in order to allow PE fares to be sold. I don't see any reason they wouldn't do that at some point, once they've got the fare classes sorted out so that they wouldn't be selling economy fares into PE seats.
As for fare classes -- I would have expected them to have stopped selling Y fares for whatever buckets they eventually intend to use for P+. I'm able to find TPAC fares for every fare class except G and N; I don't think they'd re-use N. G is a candidate, but since it tends to be used for sale fares, it's also possible that this is a red herring; they just might not offer any sales on the routes I checked.
As for fare classes -- I would have expected them to have stopped selling Y fares for whatever buckets they eventually intend to use for P+. I'm able to find TPAC fares for every fare class except G and N; I don't think they'd re-use N. G is a candidate, but since it tends to be used for sale fares, it's also possible that this is a red herring; they just might not offer any sales on the routes I checked.
Jun 14, 2018, 10:24 am
#643
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington, DC
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Jun 14, 2018, 10:33 am
#644
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ORF, RIC
Programs: UA LT 1K, 3 MM; Marriott Titanium; IHG Platinum
Posts: 6,958
E+ section of ps routes, EWR-SFO/LAX and SFO-BOS, has free meals and drinks.
Jun 14, 2018, 11:17 am
#645
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Posts: 21,417
Why worry about fare code? A single fare code, such as N for BE, is a possibility for PE. UA just sells PE at an available economy fare plus a delta (non-refundable) or two (refundable). UA could choose a fare code such as V for PE. This is just my wild guess. This may create some problems when code-sharing with NH's and LH's PE.
I expect your pricing suggestion is spot on, but I think they will have multiple inventory buckets, for two reasons. (a) I think they'll want finer-grained control over P+ inventory than over Y inventory; you don't want last-seat availability for P+ at your lowest price point just because you have K9 in Y; (b) I expect differences in PQM and/or upgrade eligibility; (c) I think they'l want to offer P+ awards at the Everyday and Saver level; and (d) I expect a *A award bucket for PE to be introduced within the next year or two.
They can use synthetic (two-character) buckets for UA awards, but the others will require regular buckets. LH uses 3, two of which can be upgraded with a GPU, and none of which represent *A award availability. I expect UA to follow suit and start with 3 classes.