halls120

While I use the electronic BP, this is why I always print a paper BP upon arrival at the airport.

Always.

exwannabe

But that pax had already boarded with a legal ticket and seat assignment.

By the argument of many posters on this board, he can not IDB'd and therefore can not be kicked off the plain.

The only option UA would have is to open the door and wait for somebody to take cash to walk off.

On another subject, why would any parent who purchased a ticked to a quasi infant-in-arms ever scan it? If the seat is otherwise empty, the ticket can be reused subject to change fees. If not empty, then just product the boarding pass.

minnyfly

I'll remember this if one day I have a child just over two years old! Now that I think about it, this is a great opportunity to game the system. Buy a separate ticket for the child, state that he's a lap child at the gate, and hope that the seat is filled by a standby once onboard. If that happens, then document what you have to and complain later to the media later that you were wronged. Profit!

Uh, that's a gain of $1,000 when you complete your travel and then are refunded. Sounds like she gained more than $1,000 in this situation. Heck of a payday.

blueman2

This mother was on the middle of a multi-segment round-trip flight. If she does not scan the baby's boarding pass, then rest of the itinerary gets cancelled, with no value since not done ahead of time. And since the child is over 2, she CANNOT have him as a lap child. So they are both stuck and not able to fly home, unless she is willing to abandon her child somewhere along the way.

Now, think about that and tell me you still think this mom was just gaming the system.

mherdeg

Well, according to the Federal Aviation Administration Order 8900.1, volume 3 (general technical administration), chapter 33 (cabin safety and flight attendant management), section 6 (safety assurance system: operations - cabin safety), the rule is

So yeah I guess I would sit with a 2+ year old in my lap for $1000; 27 months seems fine; but not during taxi, takeoff, landing because I have this ridiculous belief that American airline passengers should comply with FAA rules, lol

JonathanK81

I'm not sure if I'm just naive or if the world isn't the place I see with my rose colored glasses on, but it seems pretty pathetic that there are some of us that feel like this wasn't a mistake made by United. That she was instead, just out there to try and game the system, make some money, and/or get some publicity out of this.

The world I live in, we're innocent until proven guilty. Until proven otherwise, I don't see what she did wrong. As I said before, I would personally stand-up and make sure someone understood what's going on. But, as I've been told all my life. I'm "assertive." Not everyone else is. I don't blame her for being uncomfortable and maybe downright afraid of what could potentially happen. Prior to Dr. Dao's incident, did any of us every think a rightfully ticketed passenger would be dragged off a plane, suffer a broken nose, concussion, tooth loss, and more?

I can see people who saw the news reports about him, and then think twice about opening their mouths. Thats the reality of the world we live in. But I won't believe that every person out there is trying to make a dishonest buck. Though, in this case, I hope UAL pays, and pays big.

kettle1

I hope she gets the same lawyer that Dr. Dao used.

phil94028

This is a clear violation of the FARs, if the kid was over 2 years old and did not have a required seat. These days, it may just be a made up claim though.

If true, it would be right up there with trying to take off with something legally required on the plane not working, which is serious stuff.

Probably a personal FAA bust for the flight crew too, who have to sign off on the manifest, among a lot of other things.

The regs are basic minimum safety standards and the carriers, especially part 121 are expected to exceed them.

WAY more pain than a voucher for the passenger, if true.

yohanson

I only came on here because I'm at my wits end with UA with their treatment of pax and I think it's now to the point that UA needs some serious sanctions. But, I found this post interesting because the OP is a 1K, which I think if pretty high, and he/she's been booted off UA flights. I'm a DM with DL and have been since 2011 and I have never been in fear of DL booting me off a flight even if I volunteered to be booted earlier. Is this SOP for UA to high level FF members?

findark

I have to wonder.. is it possible that there was a misunderstanding on board and the FA (and the standby pax) thought that the kid was ticketed as a lap infant? I find it hard to believe the FA knowingly left the row with a 2+ year old child on someone's lap. Violating FARs knowingly seems like a great a way to get fired.

kettle1

Is this info not printed on the final manifest the FA gets? I guess the employees at UA are told to do anything to push the plane out on-time by management to get their numbers up.

SOURCE: Yahoo news

It seems UA management is the problem.

Mul

How is this possible, when you have a minor (toddler) ticket along with the mom, and the reservation system release the minor's seat while his mom seat is not released? United doesn't have any alert on their system noting the minor is not boarded but mom has boarded ?

findark

I would assume the situation went something like GA offloads the toddler and hands a BP to the standby pax, assuming there is an empty seat on the plane. Standby pax boards, and confusion ensures. FA runs up (and is in a hurry) and mistakenly assumes that the mother booked a lap infant and misunderstood whether that entitled them to an extra seat.

It's not the most plausible story, but I could see it happening if the mother didn't communicate loudly and/or clearly that her son had a BP with a seat assignment and was entitled to the seat. Lapses in communication like that are far from unheard of. With this level of confusion, I doubt the FA checks the manifest carefully.

raehl311

Seems pretty plausible to me. Plenty of people in the world absolutely terrified of making a scene (and even more likely terrified of doing so on a United airplane) and mom wasn't assertive enough about having a separate boarding pass for her kid to overcome the miscommunication with the FA.


That said, it also sounds like the FA may have bullied the passenger a bit by saying that PAX would lose their ticket if they didn't stay on that flight. And also the FA's fault for not recognizing a situation that didn't make sense.


Overall United is pretty much entirely at fault for this one.

kettle1

Bingo! UA management is on the hook for this. This was a toddler and School Teacher from Hawaii (mother) from what I read. Where is the press release from the FAA for this violation of allowing a child on the flight without an assigned seat (that was paid for)??? This is a clear violation of USA FAA rules.

I said it up-thread. UA employees need training.

The management that came from Houston to Chicago, need to be re-trained, than they can re-train the front line employees. They seem clueless.

UA needs to hire another PR firm to brush this stuff under the rug (with $$$, not vouchers). Unbelievable.