So how does UA win back the flying public? (Beyond the obvious)
Apr 13, 2017, 2:16 pm
#286
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United 1K and 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 10,000
I hope that those UA FFs on here who have been angry about the extremely limited GPU applicability, the replacement of affordable routing strategies we could actually use with the excursionist "perk," dwindling CPU odds as GAs attempt to sell their way out of offering the same CPU odds you used to have, 10 across 777 E/E+ seating, etc. realize you're in a position of power at this very moment.
+10000
Apr 13, 2017, 3:47 pm
#287
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: 42.1% in PDX , 49.9% in PVG & 8% in the air somewhere
Programs: Marriott Ambassador Elite, UA 1K, AS MVP GLD 75K, DL Pt
Posts: 1,086
Sadly for me, lucky for United myself and several others were outraged and researched other flight alternatives. Unless we are willing to pay 20-30% more or accept far more inconvenient flight schedule and lay overs we will keep bending over and getting it from UA.
Lots of bad press, UA will be out millions in Lawyer fees and payments, but as another noted in a few weeks forgotten. Maybe a drop in bookings for a while, but each of the big US carriers have their lock on their business customers and geographical hubs, they will move alone with their already planned growth/profit, this is but a speed bump in all their plans, as they got the common sense knocked into them in day 2..
Lots of bad press, UA will be out millions in Lawyer fees and payments, but as another noted in a few weeks forgotten. Maybe a drop in bookings for a while, but each of the big US carriers have their lock on their business customers and geographical hubs, they will move alone with their already planned growth/profit, this is but a speed bump in all their plans, as they got the common sense knocked into them in day 2..
Apr 14, 2017, 12:00 am
#289
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast
Programs: AA CONCIERGE KEY & 1MM, HILTON DIAMOND
Posts: 11,970
Apr 14, 2017, 7:16 am
#290
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: UA
Posts: 10
while it is easy to come to the conclusion on United should do something to win back the public, the real threat is what UA needs to do to win travelers over other airlines.
airlines ads is on steroids ever since the UA pr nightmare. it is not only the public wants to find an alternative, it is the other airlines trying to capitalize the opportunity.
UA needs to find ways to remain competitive when comparing with other carriers. This is actually good for the industry since it improves competition, which leads to better product. US carriers are well known to have terrible product. I hope this will create some positive energy to improve overall product offerings from domestic airlines.
airlines ads is on steroids ever since the UA pr nightmare. it is not only the public wants to find an alternative, it is the other airlines trying to capitalize the opportunity.
UA needs to find ways to remain competitive when comparing with other carriers. This is actually good for the industry since it improves competition, which leads to better product. US carriers are well known to have terrible product. I hope this will create some positive energy to improve overall product offerings from domestic airlines.
Apr 14, 2017, 9:07 am
#291
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: LHR, HKG
Programs: gate lice
Posts: 315
Well, they ain't getting my wife back, even if their flights are free. This stuff has been going on for a LONG TIME.
She swore off UA in about 2002 after they lied to her ever single time she flew them between ORD and D.C. Astonishing, obvious, absurd lies about alleged weather and mechanicals and such a 10 y.o. could have seen through. Absolute contempt for someone who had to take their crappy flights because it was a government fare.
I was astonished at the first few fumbling statements of Oscar this week. What a completely tone-deaf arrogant overpaid coddled dumb@ss. Beyond belief.
Was wondering what would have happened if something remotely like this ever happened on Southwest under Herb Kelleher. Herb would have been in Dao's hospital room in 6 hours with a case of Wild Turkey and apologize face-to-face like a man, not issue some weasel-@ss set of half-apologies/half-customer-blaming from inside a Chicago office tower. Herb would have said through clouds of cigarette smoke "We screwed up, we are gonna get rid of the idiots responsible regardless of consequences, and it ain't never gonna happen again." He have turned this into a triumph of customer service.
I do not know if it is the stranglehold unions seem to have on UA, or the legions of clueless executives, or what their problem is, but this crap airline cannot fail soon enough for me.
She swore off UA in about 2002 after they lied to her ever single time she flew them between ORD and D.C. Astonishing, obvious, absurd lies about alleged weather and mechanicals and such a 10 y.o. could have seen through. Absolute contempt for someone who had to take their crappy flights because it was a government fare.
I was astonished at the first few fumbling statements of Oscar this week. What a completely tone-deaf arrogant overpaid coddled dumb@ss. Beyond belief.
Was wondering what would have happened if something remotely like this ever happened on Southwest under Herb Kelleher. Herb would have been in Dao's hospital room in 6 hours with a case of Wild Turkey and apologize face-to-face like a man, not issue some weasel-@ss set of half-apologies/half-customer-blaming from inside a Chicago office tower. Herb would have said through clouds of cigarette smoke "We screwed up, we are gonna get rid of the idiots responsible regardless of consequences, and it ain't never gonna happen again." He have turned this into a triumph of customer service.
I do not know if it is the stranglehold unions seem to have on UA, or the legions of clueless executives, or what their problem is, but this crap airline cannot fail soon enough for me.
His moves in this incident so far have been positively Smisekian.
Disappointed.
Apr 14, 2017, 9:15 am
#292
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: UA Gold MM, HHonors Gold, Hertz Five Star Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis First
Posts: 462
Apr 14, 2017, 9:19 am
#293
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Boulder, CO and Waimea, HI
Programs: UAL 1K MM
Posts: 748
Apr 14, 2017, 12:33 pm
#295
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
I think you'll see, within the next 2 years, a new logo and typeface for the carrier to reflect a true, "new UA". The current logo is now toxic globally for some potential customers (and the previously loyal ones for whom this was the final straw) that would be considering flying UA but then remember that horrible incident. Far too much association between the old CO globe and UA's service fails since the merger.
The time has come, however, to come up with a whole new brand. The current scheme has become toxic worldwide.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 14, 2017 at 1:22 pm Reason: repaired quote
Apr 14, 2017, 1:30 pm
#296
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 674
Not sure if this is worth its own thread....
https://medium.com/@treyharris/unite...n-8d74eee04038
I’d done my research before trying to take it. I’d called United’s Special Needs desk well before the flight. I explained: I have spondylitis, a type of autoimmune spinal arthritis. My symptoms vary wildly from day to day but most often I have trouble walking, but can stand okay, so I use a Segway miniPro (@SegwayInc) & cane. They asked about the device’s specs and gave me what sounded like the official OK.
The Special Needs desk rep said I could pre-board and place it in the overhead — it easily fits with the steering bar removed, and my husband can lift it. They said they’d annotated my itinerary, and told me to call them back if I had “any trouble boarding.”
The United rep then transferred me to the @TSA disability services desk to get the OK from them as well; TSA made a notation and told me who to contact if we had any trouble getting through security. TSA then sent me an email to confirm.
We thought everything was taken care of. Boy, were we wrong.
....
After speaking to the rep, the gate agent said a “manager” had to decide. We waited a bit—by this time, everyone in the gate area had boarded—then the manager came and said no. “We don’t allow hoverboards, they’re fire risks.”
I explained that it’s a Segway, not a hoverboard, it’s UL-certified for fire safety (with a hologram-seal certification on bottom stating this — I showed it to them), and one has never spontaneously combusted like those cheap hoverboards everyone was buying a couple years ago did. You could buy one on Amazon, even after they announced they wouldn’t sell hoverboards anymore.
The manager was unswayed. “We don’t even allow Samsung phones, we definitely won’t allow that.” (I did not point out that I hadn’t seen anyone asked to show their phone at the gate, and so how did he know there wasn’t a Samsung phone on board?)
I got my iPad out where I’d pre-loaded the regs from United’s own website and showed them the relevant passages: “no watt hour limit” for such sealed permanent batteries¹, “Segways” for mobility purposes were specifically mentioned along with wheelchairs, scooters, etc.
....
The manager tried to make it TSA’s problem. “I don’t know why they let you through security, TSA doesn’t allow these.” So I asked for the duty manager TSA’s disability line told me to ask for. He shortly arrived and succinctly gave his judgment: “TSA has no problem with it.” The United manager scowled, and said the captain must decide.
My husband returned from the plane, saying there was space saved in the overhead for it. The captain came to the gate, I explained the situation and showed him the iPad, told him it’s our honeymoon and we had a cruise ship to catch, and he said “don’t worry, we’ll figure this out,” warmly — I thought he was on our side.
He conferred with the TSA manager, who repeated, “TSA will allow.” The captain returned to plane without speaking to us, and I think I’m all set, so we head to the jetway — and got stopped again.
....
I’m then told that the captain has made the decision NOT to allow it, and has “final authority”. I ask what can I do — gate-check it? No, it’s not being allowed on the plane period, cabin or cargo. Can we book another flight while we argue our case? No — no flight will arrive in time for our ship departure.
No time to get the Segway home, or to get a friend to pick it up; no way to store it.
Connor even tried without success to get an agent going off-duty to just take it to lost and found. Finally, as they’re about to close the doors (were they really going to push off with all our things onboard?), I pointed to it and said “what if I just left it right here,” in front of the gate — “will you let us board without it?”
The gate agent grumbles that we could’ve done that at the start without all this trouble, and then lets us board — me hobbling on my cane down the jetway. We take off, and my honeymoon starts with me sobbing for an hour, my husband consoling me. I felt humiliated, like all the passengers blamed me for the delay. (One passenger a few rows back was grousing loudly, “entitled idiot thinks he can bring a hoverboard onto an airplane”.) I assumed the Segway — a device that’s been essential to me for much of the last year I’ve had it — is lost.
The Special Needs desk rep said I could pre-board and place it in the overhead — it easily fits with the steering bar removed, and my husband can lift it. They said they’d annotated my itinerary, and told me to call them back if I had “any trouble boarding.”
The United rep then transferred me to the @TSA disability services desk to get the OK from them as well; TSA made a notation and told me who to contact if we had any trouble getting through security. TSA then sent me an email to confirm.
We thought everything was taken care of. Boy, were we wrong.
....
After speaking to the rep, the gate agent said a “manager” had to decide. We waited a bit—by this time, everyone in the gate area had boarded—then the manager came and said no. “We don’t allow hoverboards, they’re fire risks.”
I explained that it’s a Segway, not a hoverboard, it’s UL-certified for fire safety (with a hologram-seal certification on bottom stating this — I showed it to them), and one has never spontaneously combusted like those cheap hoverboards everyone was buying a couple years ago did. You could buy one on Amazon, even after they announced they wouldn’t sell hoverboards anymore.
The manager was unswayed. “We don’t even allow Samsung phones, we definitely won’t allow that.” (I did not point out that I hadn’t seen anyone asked to show their phone at the gate, and so how did he know there wasn’t a Samsung phone on board?)
I got my iPad out where I’d pre-loaded the regs from United’s own website and showed them the relevant passages: “no watt hour limit” for such sealed permanent batteries¹, “Segways” for mobility purposes were specifically mentioned along with wheelchairs, scooters, etc.
....
The manager tried to make it TSA’s problem. “I don’t know why they let you through security, TSA doesn’t allow these.” So I asked for the duty manager TSA’s disability line told me to ask for. He shortly arrived and succinctly gave his judgment: “TSA has no problem with it.” The United manager scowled, and said the captain must decide.
My husband returned from the plane, saying there was space saved in the overhead for it. The captain came to the gate, I explained the situation and showed him the iPad, told him it’s our honeymoon and we had a cruise ship to catch, and he said “don’t worry, we’ll figure this out,” warmly — I thought he was on our side.
He conferred with the TSA manager, who repeated, “TSA will allow.” The captain returned to plane without speaking to us, and I think I’m all set, so we head to the jetway — and got stopped again.
....
I’m then told that the captain has made the decision NOT to allow it, and has “final authority”. I ask what can I do — gate-check it? No, it’s not being allowed on the plane period, cabin or cargo. Can we book another flight while we argue our case? No — no flight will arrive in time for our ship departure.
No time to get the Segway home, or to get a friend to pick it up; no way to store it.
Connor even tried without success to get an agent going off-duty to just take it to lost and found. Finally, as they’re about to close the doors (were they really going to push off with all our things onboard?), I pointed to it and said “what if I just left it right here,” in front of the gate — “will you let us board without it?”
The gate agent grumbles that we could’ve done that at the start without all this trouble, and then lets us board — me hobbling on my cane down the jetway. We take off, and my honeymoon starts with me sobbing for an hour, my husband consoling me. I felt humiliated, like all the passengers blamed me for the delay. (One passenger a few rows back was grousing loudly, “entitled idiot thinks he can bring a hoverboard onto an airplane”.) I assumed the Segway — a device that’s been essential to me for much of the last year I’ve had it — is lost.
Apr 14, 2017, 2:06 pm
#297
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Gila, NM, USA
Posts: 1,044
I just looked it up and it has been 7 years now since SW abused Kevin Smith for being fat and I began my boycott of SW. I book travel for a number of people and I don't even check SW fares anymore. Of course their system makes this particularly easy to do even for someone in the heart of their territory who used to fly them often. I will now also boycott United. I don't know for how long. But it's not a matter of someone at AA or DL makes a mistake and I'll be right back, not by a long shot.
And I think those who keep mentioning UA 3411 and the leggings thing in the same message are WAY off base. UA was in the right on leggings, those young ladies were non-revs and clearly breaking the pass rules which I've known since I was a kid (friend's parent worked for airline) and I'm dead certain that if these young women didn't know the rules (which are printed on their passes) that their mom who tried to make the whole thing into an issue of sexism and misogyny DID know and also knew that if she wanted her daughters to be able to fly in the skimpiest possible outfits then she would have to pay for their tix and they wouldn't be able to NR. Simple choice to make--put on a skirt and fly free or wear leggings and pay. She had to try and not only have her cake and eat it too but also try to make it about sexism which it never was.
This has nothing whatsoever in common with UA 3411 where UA tried to use denial of boarding procedures to remove pax from the plane which is not within their rights, also tried to use denial of boarding applicable to oversold plane when the plane was not oversold by their own admission, then brought police in to use violence against peaceful pax who was simply standing up for his rights as I would hope that any American or citizen of other free Nation would do. We should honor Dr. Dao for his courage in standing up to the abuse he received and I certainly won't support UA in any way, shape or form until I see that Dr. Dao has been honored for standing up to the despicable lies and violence of UA associated people. UA took being cheap and they made it a human rights issue of global magnitude. I too had high hopes for Oscar but his response to this is absolutely unacceptable, completely beyond the pale.
I realize that codeshare staff and Chicago Aviation Authority played many of the active roles here but UA not only contracted with these people and wrote the policies they followed, UA all the way up to Oscar stood up for these people at first and called the passenger "belligerent" when there is no evidence whatsoever that he was belligerent. This was a coverup for the violence initiated by those UA brought in to try and enforce their will and avoid having to pay fair market value to clear seats on the plane for their crew. UA loves to be able to charge as much as they possibly can for the last seat on the plane, we all know this. But they are too cheap to pay even one single dollar of real cash to buy the seat back when they need it for their crew. For these reasons, buying a seat on UA would, in my opinion, be a human rights violation.
And I think those who keep mentioning UA 3411 and the leggings thing in the same message are WAY off base. UA was in the right on leggings, those young ladies were non-revs and clearly breaking the pass rules which I've known since I was a kid (friend's parent worked for airline) and I'm dead certain that if these young women didn't know the rules (which are printed on their passes) that their mom who tried to make the whole thing into an issue of sexism and misogyny DID know and also knew that if she wanted her daughters to be able to fly in the skimpiest possible outfits then she would have to pay for their tix and they wouldn't be able to NR. Simple choice to make--put on a skirt and fly free or wear leggings and pay. She had to try and not only have her cake and eat it too but also try to make it about sexism which it never was.
This has nothing whatsoever in common with UA 3411 where UA tried to use denial of boarding procedures to remove pax from the plane which is not within their rights, also tried to use denial of boarding applicable to oversold plane when the plane was not oversold by their own admission, then brought police in to use violence against peaceful pax who was simply standing up for his rights as I would hope that any American or citizen of other free Nation would do. We should honor Dr. Dao for his courage in standing up to the abuse he received and I certainly won't support UA in any way, shape or form until I see that Dr. Dao has been honored for standing up to the despicable lies and violence of UA associated people. UA took being cheap and they made it a human rights issue of global magnitude. I too had high hopes for Oscar but his response to this is absolutely unacceptable, completely beyond the pale.
I realize that codeshare staff and Chicago Aviation Authority played many of the active roles here but UA not only contracted with these people and wrote the policies they followed, UA all the way up to Oscar stood up for these people at first and called the passenger "belligerent" when there is no evidence whatsoever that he was belligerent. This was a coverup for the violence initiated by those UA brought in to try and enforce their will and avoid having to pay fair market value to clear seats on the plane for their crew. UA loves to be able to charge as much as they possibly can for the last seat on the plane, we all know this. But they are too cheap to pay even one single dollar of real cash to buy the seat back when they need it for their crew. For these reasons, buying a seat on UA would, in my opinion, be a human rights violation.
Apr 14, 2017, 2:25 pm
#298
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Olde Dominion
Programs: DL Silver - uh huh!
Posts: 948
The text you posted is from May 2016. This article is from April 6, 2017:
See also https://cabotwealth.com/daily/dividend-stocks/how-targets-bathroom-policy-killed-tgt-stock/ (1/26/2017)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2017/04/06/targets-bruising-backlash-over-bathrooms-nears-one.amp.html (4/6/2027)
And is from Australia (4/8/2017):
http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/transgender-bathroom-policy-still-hurting-target/news-story/1bcaf62ebd5d8ea9a0f01677b239d877
The fact that this story is still being reported on a year later, and not just in conservative news outlets, should be enough to give people pause when asserting that a boycott of United will have no effect.
The Target boycott cost more than anyone expected — and the CEO was blindsided
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/target-ceo-blindsided-by-boycott-2017-4See also https://cabotwealth.com/daily/dividend-stocks/how-targets-bathroom-policy-killed-tgt-stock/ (1/26/2017)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2017/04/06/targets-bruising-backlash-over-bathrooms-nears-one.amp.html (4/6/2027)
And is from Australia (4/8/2017):
http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/transgender-bathroom-policy-still-hurting-target/news-story/1bcaf62ebd5d8ea9a0f01677b239d877
The fact that this story is still being reported on a year later, and not just in conservative news outlets, should be enough to give people pause when asserting that a boycott of United will have no effect.
Apr 14, 2017, 3:21 pm
#299
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, UA1K/2MM, Marriott Platinum Premier Lifetime
Posts: 357
I realize that codeshare staff and Chicago Aviation Authority played many of the active roles here but UA not only contracted with these people and wrote the policies they followed, UA all the way up to Oscar stood up for these people at first and called the passenger "belligerent" when there is no evidence whatsoever that he was belligerent. This was a coverup for the violence initiated by those UA brought in to try and enforce their will and avoid having to pay fair market value to clear seats on the plane for their crew. UA loves to be able to charge as much as they possibly can for the last seat on the plane, we all know this. But they are too cheap to pay even one single dollar of real cash to buy the seat back when they need it for their crew. For these reasons, buying a seat on UA would, in my opinion, be a human rights violation.
When a customer goes to the ticket counter their card stock for all flights purchased is on Untied card stock. They dont know the difference nor do they care to know the different. All they know is that they are flying on Untied period.
The airline industry is the only industry that I am aware of that is so large and so used to pointing their fingers at all of the other departments of the airline to blame issues on. Does not matter if it's the gate agent's, pilots, TSA or baggage handlers fault there is no one that will say, "The buck stops with me and it's my fault we screwed up."
So with this being the case they will continue to lie, cheat and steal all in effort to get over on the customer and make you feel that you have no choice but to accept it or else they will call security if you start to respond in the negative.
For me, I have started to drive more and fly less. If I do fly it's only when I don't have a choice, but I go in with the expectation that some will be screwed up. This way I am pleasantly surprised if something goes my way. I am tired of this game and I refuse to play anymore. The best definition of insanity is repeating the same action over and over while expecting a different outcome. There is no different outcome when it comes to flying Untied.
The only way to change is to change the culture of that company and I don't see that happening any time soon.
Apr 14, 2017, 5:34 pm
#300
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Somewhere...
Programs: AA PLT/3MM, UA GM/1MM, DL DM/1MM, FB Plat, AS MVP Gold, WN AList+
Posts: 1,588
AA. DL. WN. Whoever...all are better organizations. Perfect, no. But better.
But until this company fumigates out the last 25 years of garbage best to remain away. Luckily I have options, I understand others do not, but thankfully I do. This company has been in a downward spiral and they brought CO into the party as well.