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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
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Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
DOT findings related to the UA3411 9 April 2017 IDB incident 12 May 2017

What facts do we know?
  • UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
  • After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
  • United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
  • After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
  • One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
  • The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
  • After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
  • United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”

United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017

Videos

Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411
  • On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
  • We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
  • He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
  • Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
  • Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Email sent to all employees at 2:08PM on Tuesday, April 11.
Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Statement to customers - 27 April 2017
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Aftermath
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines Reference Material

UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.

If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.

We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx
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Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:14 pm
  #5626  
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Originally Posted by JNelson113
People fleeing Vietnam had their lives at risk and had to be on rickety boats for weeks to try to get to safety. They had no options.

Dr. Dao had the option to get off the plane. He was asked nicely by multiple people. He told the security folks to drag him off. When they tried he screamed like a banshee and grabbed on to the seat. Was United in the right? No. Did he make the situation much worse for himself? Yes.
Blaming the victim is something that I find disgusting.

I don't find it disgusting that someone would compare two of their own experiences, as the victim of this UA manhandling did appropriately for himself. I find it disgusting to dismiss people's comparisons where they are comparing two of their own experiences, as it shows a profound lack of empathy.

And one of the big reasons for customer service failures is a lack of empathy for customers.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:16 pm
  #5627  
 
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Originally Posted by JNelson113
Dr. Dao had the option to get off the plane. He was asked nicely by multiple people. He told the security folks to drag him off.
I'm sure that this is going to convince a jury/judge

Speaking of choice: UA had multiple choices too...
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:26 pm
  #5628  
 
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Originally Posted by sw3
Well, if that's true, sure we can expect UA and other airlines' actuaries and statisticians to begin estimating the cost of that policy and see how much they have to hike fares and fees in order to compensate, because a policy like that will not come without economic consequences
I am a statistician and economist by training and profession. IMJ the cost we're talking about here is on the order of pennies per ticket at most. The key thing to remember is that solving IDB is super easy in almost all cases, because you just lift the cap on VDB offers and let the free market do its thing.

The UA IDB rate last year was around 1 in 25,000 with an assumed $800 UA Bucks cap on VDB offers. DL's was almost 5x lower with a somewhat higher cap. So the question is how much higher, on average, would UA need to go than $800 to get the IDB rate down by an order of magnitude (e.g. to 1 in 250,000, or even 1 in a million)? We won't know until UA does it, but even if it requires them to increase the average offer in these cases from $800 to $3,000, that's 0.09 UA Bucks per ticket, or ~2 real pennies per ticket (using the 4-to-1 accounting valuation reported elsewhere on this thread). And the implied cost is even lower if the actual average IDB compensation that UA pays, in real cash, is higher than $200 (the equivalent of 800 UA Bucks).
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:27 pm
  #5629  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Blaming the victim is something that I find disgusting.

I don't find it disgusting that someone would compare two of their own experiences, as the victim of this UA manhandling did appropriately for himself. I find it disgusting to dismiss people's comparisons where they are comparing two of their own experiences, as it shows a profound lack of empathy.

And one of the big reasons for customer service failures is a lack of empathy for customers.
You and I clearly have a different definition of the word "victim". Read about some of Dr. Dao's history and the patient he sexually preyed upon, leading to multiple felony convictions and the loss of his medical license, and you'll see my definition of the word "victim".
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:35 pm
  #5630  
 
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Originally Posted by sw3
Maybe UA4771 and early next day flights could have worked for the IDB'd passengers but perhaps they were sold out. UA should publish how the loads were for their early flights both at the time of the incident and at boarding/departure so that part of the story can be completed.
The government IDB rules state that the next confirmed flight is what you have to give the passenger. Since UA was stating the 2pm flight was the next they could do, we can be assured that the next three flights were overbooked. There's no reason for the airline to not tell the truth in that case. Nobody benefits. That fact is supported after the fact by full seat maps on the late night and early morning flight, and just a single empty seat on the late morning flight. So alternative flights were full too. However, that doesn't mean that could not have made it out that night or early morning on a standby basis. Only UA would be able to tell us that.

Originally Posted by Kacee
Airfares are not set based on cost. This post reflects a fundamental misconception of airfare structures.
Indirectly they are set by cost. Either the supply will drop or airfares will rise to adjust to equilibrium. Airlines won't be able to simply raise prices for more revenue, but they will adjust supply due to the increase in cost. In the end society loses, but in particular the consumer.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:40 pm
  #5631  
 
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Originally Posted by JNelson113
You and I clearly have a different definition of the word "victim". Read about some of Dr. Dao's history and the patient he sexually preyed upon, leading to multiple felony convictions and the loss of his medical license, and you'll see my definition of the word "victim".
I am not sure what this gentleman's past history has to do with this situation.

If you would like to compare past history then we should always expect horrible and rude treatment from Untied because this has been my experience with them.

Sorry....doesn't make sense to me.

Last edited by shortkidd; Apr 14, 2017 at 4:52 pm
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:45 pm
  #5632  
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Originally Posted by sw3
... or are thinking about their loved ones' suffering instead of thinking about the instrument panel.

...

I don't want to pay higher fares so airlines can have spare crews and aircraft stationed everywhere on call 24/7/365, or so they can leave spare seats on every flight, or so they don't oversell, or so they hire executive jets instead of bumping passengers, when as things stand now there's a more than 99.9% chance of me getting into my flight without being taken out against my will. I'd rather take that <0.01% risk.
Surgeons, firefighters, ambulance crew... all have families and loved ones. All have very limited scope for mistakes. But they go ahead and do their job without 'thoughts of loved ones' getting in the way. If anything, a pilot's 'thoughts of their loved ones' should provide extra incentive for them to get home safely.

Many major European airlines have spare planes and crews at their hubs. Sure they want to maintain reliability in order to keep passengers and boost their bottom line, but they also have them to avoid hefty penalties under EU261 compensation. Fares are as cheap as they've ever been.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:46 pm
  #5633  
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Originally Posted by JNelson113
You and I clearly have a different definition of the word "victim". Read about some of Dr. Dao's history and the patient he sexually preyed upon, leading to multiple felony convictions and the loss of his medical license, and you'll see my definition of the word "victim".
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:47 pm
  #5634  
 
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Originally Posted by minnyfly
Airlines won't be able to simply raise prices for more revenue, but they will adjust supply due to the increase in cost. In the end society loses, but in particular the consumer.
I'm not certain if you're referring to a general price increase or this specific scenario. Just to clarify, there is no good economic argument one can make for any reasonable cap on IDB reimbursement. In other words, it is virtually impossible to construct a scenario in which uncapped VDB offers are not the economically efficient solution to an overbooking problem. Neither the consumer nor society will lose.

Edit: I should caveat the statements above by noting that they assume United is run by competent managers. In light of recent events, that assumption seems debatable at best. If it turns out United is run by idiots who act in nonsensical ways, then any policy change in any direction could potentially help or harm customers, and the effects are impossible to predict. In that scenario the best outcome for society is if the company just goes out of business.

Last edited by milypan; Apr 14, 2017 at 4:54 pm
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:49 pm
  #5635  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
I would hope that most of us here are without the sin of committing felonies and being sexual predators.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 4:57 pm
  #5636  
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I suspect this story might get a few more days with limited airtime then just fade away .....
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 5:01 pm
  #5637  
 
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Originally Posted by milypan
I'm not certain if you're referring to a general price increase or this specific scenario. Just to clarify, there is no good economic argument one can make for any reasonable cap on IDB reimbursement. In other words, it is virtually impossible to construct a scenario in which uncapped VDB offers are not the economically efficient solution to an overbooking problem. Neither the consumer nor society will lose.

Edit: I should caveat the statements above by noting that they assume United is run by competent managers. In light of recent events, that assumption seems debatable at best. If it turns out United is run by idiots who act in nonsensical ways, then any policy change in any direction could potentially help or harm customers, and the effects are impossible to predict. In that scenario the best outcome for society is if the company just goes out of business.
In general. There will always come a point in that same market where avoiding the VDB is the best financial option. Someone will lose out if the situation is like this UAX flight.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 5:02 pm
  #5638  
 
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Originally Posted by enviroian
I suspect this story might get a few more days with limited airtime then just fade away .....
IDK about that. UA has done a great job of keeping this story alive. They've committed to doing a study and releasing results by the end of the month. Not to mention that the Dr.'s lawyer, sister and others will do a good job at keeping this alive. And this has been such an event that politicians and others are in the game. None of that says fade away quickly.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 5:06 pm
  #5639  
 
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Originally Posted by enviroian
I suspect this story might get a few more days with limited airtime then just fade away .....
I hope not. This thread has the potential for becoming the biggest ever for this forum. It's now in 3rd and should take over 2nd later today. Just a little more than 300 posts to go until #1

Seriously, I think Dr. Dao isn't going to settle and this case will pop up for a while as discovery proceeds, goes to trial, etc. I expect UA to suffer recurring pain over this event. And IMO, it deserves everything it gets
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 5:08 pm
  #5640  
 
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Originally Posted by JNelson113
I would hope that most of us here are without the sin of committing felonies and being sexual predators.
Wow, we're still talking about this, huh?

What felonies did he commit on Flight 3411? What passengers on Flight 3411 did he sexually prey on?

No wonder United always wins.
FiveMileFinal is offline  


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