Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
The United Moderator team:
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l'etoile
Ocn Vw 1K
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WineCountryUA
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
#4996
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,049
Not sure it would be that big on an issue. But if it were I think it would fine to leave that as is as long as IDBs were very severely curtailed to the point of near elimination. Basically require the airlines to pay whatever was necessary to get enough VDBs. And constrain airlines from using cops to carry out customer service - only allow them in safety/security issues.
#4997
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,460
Last flight on Sunday night. Next flight Monday afternoon.
They expected 800 bucks of vouchers to get people to call in.
"Sorry boss. United had 4 guys that needed to be at work tomorrow and they offered me some money and a hotel room, so I decided I don't need to be there. See you tomorrow."
That's what they had in mind?
They expected 800 bucks of vouchers to get people to call in.
"Sorry boss. United had 4 guys that needed to be at work tomorrow and they offered me some money and a hotel room, so I decided I don't need to be there. See you tomorrow."
That's what they had in mind?
#4998
Used to be 'etrevino'
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: MTY
Programs: AA, BA, AM Plat, HH Silver, SPG Gold, Amex Plat
Posts: 134
He doesn't sound naive in the least. He sounds like he is saying that for all intents and purposes his client was boarded. Since he was boarded United had no authority whatsoever to kick him off. There is a list of reasons why United can kick him off. None of those boxes seem to have been ticked.
#4999
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,722
No way DOT would ever eliminate overbooking - airlines would scream bloody murder and they have tremendous clout on the Hill. More likely we will see an overdue update to regulations that cover IDB, VDB, oversell, and whatever this was (ejection after boarding?) Overbooking is not the problem - it is how the airlines treat paid customers when they oversell that is the problem.
I wasn't joking. It must be a rare frequent flyer who has not heard airline staff threatening to call security over any and all disagreements. That threat usually suffices to cow most of us into submission. Dr. Dao, however, having fled a totalitarian regime, and no doubt recognizing such, had more intestinal fortitude than most of us, and refused to follow their "orders" (sic). So United pulled the trigger on the threat.
#5000
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
About 1000 posts ago I tried to articulate this, but it was like 5AM local time with minimal sleep.
1) United has a CoC with Pax.
2) United decided to breach it for whatever reason it pleased, incurring whatever civil liabilities would be accrued.
3) United informed pax of #2 , and allowed pax to quietly comply with new situation
4) Pax refuses.
5) the rest...
It's #2 that breaks our trust in UA, sure. And this is what Oscar is referring to "doing better".
It's #4 that is criminal.
and #5 may have criminal components too, of zero interest to me on FT.
And for those who think once you're seated in your assigned seat it is yours, I really think this is unreasonable. Any FF should expect IRROP post-boarding can occur resulting in complete offload, inoperable seat requiring musical chairs, onboard seat swap negotiation between private parties, FA juggling for "weights and balances" or just to make space for friends... all this has happened to me, as I'm sure all of you.
But worst of all, the empty F and some UA*S sitting in the back getting CPU or whatever the UA lingo is, post boarding. This practice would need to be stopped as well, in order to stay consistent with the "My seat is my seat. I bought THIS seat!" doctrine.
1) United has a CoC with Pax.
2) United decided to breach it for whatever reason it pleased, incurring whatever civil liabilities would be accrued.
3) United informed pax of #2 , and allowed pax to quietly comply with new situation
4) Pax refuses.
5) the rest...
It's #2 that breaks our trust in UA, sure. And this is what Oscar is referring to "doing better".
It's #4 that is criminal.
and #5 may have criminal components too, of zero interest to me on FT.
And for those who think once you're seated in your assigned seat it is yours, I really think this is unreasonable. Any FF should expect IRROP post-boarding can occur resulting in complete offload, inoperable seat requiring musical chairs, onboard seat swap negotiation between private parties, FA juggling for "weights and balances" or just to make space for friends... all this has happened to me, as I'm sure all of you.
But worst of all, the empty F and some UA*S sitting in the back getting CPU or whatever the UA lingo is, post boarding. This practice would need to be stopped as well, in order to stay consistent with the "My seat is my seat. I bought THIS seat!" doctrine.
#5001
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nawthun Virginia
Programs: Air: UA (Gold), AA, WN, DL; Hotel: Hilton (Diamond), plus all the rest
Posts: 135
One big fact about that has not been talked about. Next afternoon was the first flight with confirmed space. That is what the airline is required to state and guarantee. It's sounds bad, but that's not necessarily what would have happened. You can bet every bumped passenger would have been placed on standby for the next flight, and so on, and there was one more flight that night. He might have been home that night anyway. From the video we've seen, it's unknown whether the Dr. knew everything about the situation, and it doesn't appear the Dr. was interested in finding out either.
#5002
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
One big fact about that has not been talked about. Next afternoon was the first flight with confirmed space. That is what the airline is required to state and guarantee. It's sounds bad, but that's not necessarily what would have happened. You can bet every bumped passenger would have been placed on standby for the next flight, and so on, and there was one more flight that night. He might have been home that night anyway. From the video we've seen, it's unknown whether the Dr. knew everything about the situation, and it doesn't appear the Dr. was interested in finding out either.
You guys just gave up the china market, hope you are happy with the system Jeff set up.
#5003
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,049
I'm guessing that by the time UA settles or has a ruling in this case "naive" won't be in the first 500 adjectives UA's CEO uses to describe Dau's lawyer.
Last edited by GadgetFreak; Apr 13, 2017 at 3:40 pm
#5004
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,478
Right. The fate of the "whole aviation system" hinged on these four employees getting on that flight.
#5005
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,670
I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but CNN reported that UA's offer to compensate passengers for the fare they paid is contingent on their agreement not to sue, lol...
How cheap, sneaky and clueless can UA be, eh? Don't they deserve a class action, what do you think?
How cheap, sneaky and clueless can UA be, eh? Don't they deserve a class action, what do you think?
#5006
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Oh sure, blow off facts because they're inconvenient. Here's another data point - the late morning ORD-SDF flight left with an empty seat. The Dr. would not have had to wait until 2pm to leave ORD. Not that it would have mattered in his case, but it might have mattered to somebody else in the VDB process to know exactly how soon they might get home, not just how late.
#5007
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
Thus I can see the market playing all of the stocks a bit cool for a while. Perhaps equally cool, as any change to existing rules would affect all of them, not just United.
#5008
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,049
It's interesting: I think we've moved past some of the initial outrage at United and their cruelly unsympathetic CEO. Now there's a broader nationwide conversation about the entire airline cartel and how it treats customers. While I don't actually *expect* the current crop of Congresscritters to actually do anything (there's no evidence they have any inclination to do anything for "the little guy" at the expense of their corporate patrons), it would be a pretty easy way to score some favorability ratings (and votes) of their own. United might be the single most hated entity in America right now, but Congress could easily be #2 - and that's true in both red and blue districts.
Thus I can see the market playing all of the stocks a bit cool for a while. Perhaps equally cool, as any change to existing rules would affect all of them, not just United.
Thus I can see the market playing all of the stocks a bit cool for a while. Perhaps equally cool, as any change to existing rules would affect all of them, not just United.
#5009
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nawthun Virginia
Programs: Air: UA (Gold), AA, WN, DL; Hotel: Hilton (Diamond), plus all the rest
Posts: 135
About 1000 posts ago I tried to articulate this, but it was like 5AM local time with minimal sleep.
1) United has a CoC with Pax.
2) United decided to breach it for whatever reason it pleased, incurring whatever civil liabilities would be accrued.
3) United informed pax of #2 , and allowed pax to quietly comply with new situation
4) Pax refuses.
5) the rest...
It's #2 that breaks our trust in UA, sure. And this is what Oscar is referring to "doing better".
It's #4 that is criminal.
and #5 may have criminal components too, of zero interest to me on FT.
And for those who think once you're seated in your assigned seat it is yours, I really think this is unreasonable. Any FF should expect IRROP post-boarding can occur resulting in complete offload, inoperable seat requiring musical chairs, onboard seat swap negotiation between private parties, FA juggling for "weights and balances" or just to make space for friends... all this has happened to me, as I'm sure all of you.
But worst of all, the empty F and some UA*S sitting in the back getting CPU or whatever the UA lingo is, post boarding. This practice would need to be stopped as well, in order to stay consistent with the "My seat is my seat. I bought THIS seat!" doctrine.
1) United has a CoC with Pax.
2) United decided to breach it for whatever reason it pleased, incurring whatever civil liabilities would be accrued.
3) United informed pax of #2 , and allowed pax to quietly comply with new situation
4) Pax refuses.
5) the rest...
It's #2 that breaks our trust in UA, sure. And this is what Oscar is referring to "doing better".
It's #4 that is criminal.
and #5 may have criminal components too, of zero interest to me on FT.
And for those who think once you're seated in your assigned seat it is yours, I really think this is unreasonable. Any FF should expect IRROP post-boarding can occur resulting in complete offload, inoperable seat requiring musical chairs, onboard seat swap negotiation between private parties, FA juggling for "weights and balances" or just to make space for friends... all this has happened to me, as I'm sure all of you.
But worst of all, the empty F and some UA*S sitting in the back getting CPU or whatever the UA lingo is, post boarding. This practice would need to be stopped as well, in order to stay consistent with the "My seat is my seat. I bought THIS seat!" doctrine.
#5010
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Now, on a long enough flight this gets stickier (this is why the cap needs to go away...I can't drive a car to LHR or NRT, for example) but on a flight <500 miles there's room for a lot of folks to haggle.
FWIW the fact that they had a VDB pax come back and the fact that there are some "horror shows" of mangled alternative bookings, vouchers not being processed right or being overly restrictive, etc. is another thing that probably gave folks pause.
TBH on a flight of this duration, presuming I was on a time crunch? At $800 there's a chance I would have flagged the GA and said "I'll take the $800 voucher but instead of a flight tomorrow I want a refund of the flight in cash, I want a voucher to take to a rental car company of your choosing for a one-day, one-way rental car of Standard or better with the Fuel Purchase Option and Loss Damage Waiver, and most importantly I want all of this in writing, including the check for my refund, before I leave my seat. I also want credit for any miles and spend from this flight which I would have recieved had I flown. If I have to come down to $500 on the voucher to get the rest of this I will, or I'm willing to take $250 cash in lieu of any voucher."
If I wasn't on a time crunch, and noting that I almost exclusively book into a premium cabin, my request would be more along the lines of "I want (circuitous domestic routing) in J/F with full mileage credit" or, if I'm in the FFP of the airline, I'd rather take a credit of some sum in MQDs (not vouchers, straight credit towards status) and a related sum of MQMs (using the DL terminology) as a comp. On UA, I'd be wrangling for something that will get me status on SQ; on DL, status on VS; on AA, status on AS.
But this is also me looking at this from the perspective of being willing to negotiate as long as I know I won't get screwed over at the gate...and that is a real problem that I think UA probably has in perception.