WorldLux

He disobeyed UA staff! That's a capital crime ! @:-)

Flyer1M

This is clearly a PR nightmare for United - though from Oscar's response especially the email he sent to his employees it isn't. They might have won that battle on getting the pax off the aircraft but in the court of public opinion they have lost the war. This video has been seen worldwide.

At this point Oscar needs to simply take ownership of the situation and apologize to the passenger this occurred to in public. Also, setup a meeting in person and apologize - it would go a long way. Apologize Apologize Apologize.

What would have happened if this was someone else and while being dragged off the aircraft had a heart attack or hit his head while being dragged and had a stroke or died?

Now imagine this being someone your know or your dad!

Rdenney

The DOT doesn't say that's the most they can pay, it says that's the least they can be expected to pay if the passenger does not accept a lesser offer.

jwh212

The two are not connected. Passengers can be removed from flights regardless of any "contract".

the legislation which covers crewmember instruction is CFR 121.580 and CFR 135.120.

Additionally, the contract which you are erroneously tying to the rights of the crew to remove passengers, actually does account for this situation. A passenger who is refusing to comply with instructions is in violation of the Contract of Carriage and can be removed from the flight. (ama

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx

Rule 21, heading F.

UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.
Search of Passenger or Property – Whenever a Passenger refuses to submit to electronic surveillance or to permit search of his/her person or property.
Proof of Identity – Whenever a Passenger refuses on request to produce identification satisfactory to UA or who presents a Ticket to board and whose identification does not match the name on the Ticket. UA shall have the right, but shall not be obligated, to require identification of persons purchasing tickets and/or presenting a ticket(s) for the purpose of boarding the aircraft.
Failure to Pay – Whenever a Passenger has not paid the appropriate fare for a Ticket, Baggage, or applicable service charges for services required for travel, has not paid an outstanding debt or Court judgment, or has not produced satisfactory proof to UA that the Passenger is an authorized non-revenue Passenger or has engaged in a prohibited practice as specified in Rule 6.
Across International Boundaries – Whenever a Passenger is traveling across any international boundary if:
The government required travel documents of such Passenger appear not to be in order according to UA's reasonable belief; or
Such Passenger’s embarkation from, transit through, or entry into any country from, through, or to which such Passenger desires transportation would be unlawful or denied for any reason.
Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:
Passengers whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;
Passengers who assault any employee of UA, including the gate agents and flight crew, or any UA Passenger;
Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;
Passengers who are barefoot or not properly clothed;
Passengers who appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs to a degree that the Passenger may endanger the Passenger or another Passenger or members of the crew (other than a qualified individual whose appearance or involuntary behavior may make them appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs);
Passengers wearing or possessing on or about their person concealed or unconcealed deadly or dangerous weapons; provided, however, that UA will carry law enforcement personnel who meet the qualifications and conditions established in 49 C.F.R. §1544.219;
Passengers who are unwilling or unable to follow UA’s policy on smoking or use of other smokeless materials;
Unless they comply with Rule 6 I), Passengers who are unable to sit in a single seat with the seat belt properly secured, and/or are unable to put the seat’s armrests down when seated and remain seated with the armrest down for the entirety of the flight, and/or passengers who significantly encroach upon the adjoining passenger’s seat;
Passengers who are manacled or in the custody of law enforcement personnel;
Passengers who have resisted or may reasonably be believed to be capable of resisting custodial supervision;
Pregnant Passengers in their ninth month, unless such Passenger provides a doctor’s certificate dated no more than 72 hours prior to departure stating that the doctor has examined and found the Passenger to be physically fit for air travel to and from the destination requested on the date of the flight, and that the estimated date of delivery is after the date of the last flight;
Passengers who are incapable of completing a flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight, as well as Passengers who appear to have symptoms of or have a communicable disease or condition that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight, or who refuse a screening for such disease or condition. (NOTE: UA requires a medical certificate for Passengers who wish to travel under such circumstances. Visit UA’s website, united.com, for more information regarding UA’s requirements for medical certificates);
Passengers who fail to travel with the required safety assistant(s), advance notice and/or other safety requirements pursuant to Rules 14 and 15;
Passengers who do not qualify as acceptable Non-Ambulatory Passengers (see Rule 14);
Passengers who have or cause a malodorous condition (other than individuals qualifying as disabled);
Passengers whose physical or mental condition is such that, in United’s sole opinion, they are rendered or likely to be rendered incapable of comprehending or complying with safety instructions without the assistance of an escort. The escort must accompany the escorted passenger at all times; and
Unaccompanied passengers who are both blind and deaf, unless such passenger is able to communicate with representatives of UA by either physical, mechanical, electronic, or other means. Such passenger must inform UA of the method of communication to be used; and
Passengers who are unwilling to follow UA’s policy that prohibits voice calls after the aircraft doors have closed, while taxiing in preparation for takeoff, or while airborne.

LordHamster

The fact that an overbooking situation was allowed to escalate to the point of needing to involuntarily remove passengers shows a stunning lack of customer centricity.


And this, ladies and gentleman, is the kind of attitude is what leads to some of the more memorable images of our times. Regardless of what the letter of the law is, it is encumbent on good people to stand up and object to bad laws and/or bad enforcement. IMO this situation with United is a clear example of airline employees who would rather use force against a customer than to raise the voluntary compensation amount a bit.








I've seen dozens of videos on Youtube of passengers cheering when unruly passengers are taken off planes. This case is unique. At least 3-4 people could be heard objecting to the actions of the airline/police. IMO this was handled 100% wrong by the Airline and Chicago Aviation Police

jjmoore

You are asking me if I know exactly word for word what was said... I don't think anyone knows that, including those that were seated right by him. What is extraordinarily clear is that the pax disobeyed orders / requests from the flight crew, and likewise with the LEO's that came on board. Those that have been interviewed have indicated this much.

So again, it comes down to the fact that this guy did not do what he was told by an authority. Mistake.

I'm sorry if I sound rash, but this is what it comes down to.

Shame on UA for allowing the situation to arise.

Shame on the LEO for using excessive force (if this is the result of the probe)

Shame on the pax for being bull-headed and defiant, and for disobeying orders given by the flight crew and LEO's.

It's a shame that the media has blown this into what it is... sure it deserves attention (focused on toughening up regs on airlines), but it has turned into an anti-authority witch hunt, which is portraying this pax as a saint and LEO's and UA as satan. This is what the media has done best for the last couple years anyway.

MSPeconomist

WRONG. IBD compensation is only four times the fare that was paid by the passenger for the segment. If UA picked the four people with the cheapest tickets, this would only be a several hundred dollars.

GadgetFreak

Right. No one at UA apparently knew that everyone on the plane has a camera. Ten or twelve years ago this wasn't the case but it sure is now. About the only thing I think UA could have done worse is try to eject the people taking movies and confiscate their cameras. In fact, I'm a little surprised they didn't try it.

hazelrah

Over 30 years i've seen several IDB situations and the whole process was conducted before boarding.

Rdenney

Taking over the radio does not require one to be a pilot certified on that aircraft. FAA ATC's that take their required annual orientation flight are allowed to use the jump seat, though most prefer the free drinks in J. Very few of them are air transport pilots (many are private pilots), and they wouldn't be an ATC and still maintain their aircraft certs.

justinwong

Again I ask, in a democratic society - WHO exactly is the authority?

Is it the police who are there to serve the public or the public who should be serving the police force?

This is no anti-authority witchhunt. The individual concerned who displayed anti-authority tendencies was the enforcement officer who refused to uphold the civil rights of the passenger.

simpletastes

I understand your sentiment but in reality, there is no objective way (other than monetary compensation) to judge who will be least inconvenienced. Don't forget there are 4 employees who could be driven to their destination by car. The onus is on United to increase the offer, not on 4 passengers to accept a bad offer out of kindness.

newaliases

I actually think this might be worse for United.

Not only did they remove a...
elderly...
minority...
doctor...
allegedly needing to be home to see his patients...

now it turns out the pax is also...
homosexual...
probably mentally unstable...

It's almost like the person at United went through a list and was like, "let's see how many of these I can hit [literally] at once."

bitterproffit

Cost of yesterday's IDB on UA value so far this morning:
$3 per share and dropping
x $314.62 Million Shares
= $943 Million as of 10:30 ET

It gets expensive 'simply following procedures'.

jjmoore

Genius ... oh wait... geniuses don't make comparisons between apples and oranges.