aindfan

By the way, in case anyone here doesn't have a good appreciation for why airfare pricing is a hard problem to solve (in light of the mess that airlines got themselves into), you can read Computational complexity of air travel planning, a talk from an MIT computer science course presented by someone from ITA back in 2003. While I have no affiliation with either ITA or MIT, I think the talk does a great job explaining the challenges (especially if you have a computer science background).

Thanks for everyone's responses!

IAD_flyer

That was a great read. Thanks, aindfan.

Taoyuan

Thanks for posting this. I have a computer science background and find this really interesting.

findark

+1. Absolutely fascinating!

Bonehead

Probably because technically <GGBUYUP> doesn't apply if you're trying to upfare in the same cabin (at least that's my understanding).

nobodyherebutme

Interesting read. But why does the bottom of page 6 state that an "impecunious" traveler might be willing to consider any of the 2,000 flights?

findark

Someone in that situation is much more likely to consider flying SFO-YVR-ORD-BOS if it were less expensive than SFO-BOS, whereas a business traveler on OPM is only interested in the nonstops.

cfischer

not even the rate desk can sell you this illegal routing ...

Yes, intl. complicated trips especially when making changes after ticketing ... that's when the rate desk needs to get involved. Happens all the time.

aindfan

This was exactly the type of change that I was trying to make (which prompted this thread), and despite spelling out to an agent how to get the price that I was seeing, the rate desk either wouldn't or couldn't replicate it for my first four calls and finally did once I spoke with a supervisor on the fifth call. To make a long (hours on the phone) story short, don't expect agents to believe you when you have a ticket that looks like this:

EWR-SFO-HKG (UA P)
HKG-BKK (CX I)
BKK-HYD (TG C)

That's EWR-SFO-HKG-BKK on a single UA P fare, and a separate TG C fare.

...and when you try to change segments on the return, they reprice it as EWR-SFO-HKG in UA Z, HKG-BKK in CX J, BKK-HYD in TG C instead of keeping the original construction. Getting everything at the price that I expected was quite the challenge this time around, but a great supervisor got a great rates agent on the phone and made it happen.

And if you have access to GDS (or EF/KVS) and don't believe that CX can fit on a UA EWR-BKK P fare, take a look at the routing rules, and you'll be as surprised as I was that they'd rather send their customers on CX than TG.

findark

In context the quote is

The point is that you don't know that's an illegal routing. For example, UA is perfectly happy to sell me SFO-YVR-YYZ-BOS (with a fare break in YVR). This is an absurdly long routing and happens to be expensive, but until you actually start pulling more data than a directed graph of flights you won't know that.

And the "impecunious" (which means poor) traveler, or the mileage runner, might be willing to consider such a crazy itinerary if it were in fact inexpensive.

As a more realistic example, I have seen SFO-SNA-SFO-MSP be less expensive than SFO-MSP (same last sector). That was even fancy enough that I don't think ITA found it.

cesco.g

Very insightful. Thanks for sharing, aindfan! ^

donotblink

I know I�m reviving a really old thread, but I�m really curious�are these college educated people making more than minimum wage, or just highly trained specialists with GEDs.

jp12687

I routinely see YYZ-EWR-HKG round trip cheaper then the direct from EWR

but as a business traveler on OPM I won�t do it

COGal

Hello everyone!

I have been with CO/UA for 20 years, spending the last 15 years as part of the Rate department. We are part of the Reservations division. The things that you describe here are a small part of what we do. There is a lot going on behind the scenes as well. In addition to providing pricing support for all agents, we interpret the Tariff, do all the Round the World bookings and pricing, provide a support line for Travel Agencies. In addition to being proficient on Shares, we handle pricing in Sabre/Amadeus/Apollo/Worldspan and Galileo. We tax all of the Group contracts and when Reservations is extremely busy we step in and assist with all the phone calls.

The position doesn't require a university degree, although I myself have a Bachelor's degree. Just like with any of the other agents we have Rates agents that are incredible, can do the impossible and like me really love the work we do. Like in all employment situations you have some that aren't as knowledgeable as others and do the bare minimum to be productive. I love the work that I do, it has it's moments but overall I wouldn't trade it.

cfischer

Thanks for the work you do. Often good news when finally 'the rate desk' gets involved because then we usually get what we already figured out was 'possible' ... and just couldn't convince the phone agent to do