Same route, same aircraft, different block time
Feb 13, 2017 | 6:42 am
#17
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This whole discussion is quite frankly a waste of time. UA has decided, for whatever reason, that it needs to schedule a longer amount of time for that flight. Telling them that it is "illogical" for them to schedule the way they did will not result in a schedule change which will allow your connection to work.
As far as afternoon congestion into EWR, note that smaller planes (and certain UX carriers) are far more likely to be delayed. It seems like there is a ground stop program almost every afternoon into EWR, so padding the schedules like crazy is probably wise.
As far as afternoon congestion into EWR, note that smaller planes (and certain UX carriers) are far more likely to be delayed. It seems like there is a ground stop program almost every afternoon into EWR, so padding the schedules like crazy is probably wise.
Feb 13, 2017 | 11:09 am
#18
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Which is why I am looking at the same type of aircraft from the same operator, arriving around the same time at the same airport, always coming from Canada.
Yes there can be departure delays, too. But in YHZ, around that time of day, it is rather quiet.
My original question was if it is a common thing. Having since looked at the most comparable routes, the answer seems to be "no, it is uncommon".
Yes there can be departure delays, too. But in YHZ, around that time of day, it is rather quiet.
My original question was if it is a common thing. Having since looked at the most comparable routes, the answer seems to be "no, it is uncommon".
Feb 13, 2017 | 11:19 am
#19
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Feb 13, 2017 | 11:31 am
#20
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I think what the OP is trying to say is the following (correct me if I'm wrong):
Looking at EWR - YHZ - EWR the following observations can be made:
EWR - YHZ: 1:57h flight time
YHZ - EWR: 2:07h or 2:33h flight time*
Note the increase of flight time on the return leg
Then looking at:
EWR - YQB - EWR
EWR - YUL - EWR
*The same 'increase/padding' of flight time is not seen on the YQB - EWR and the YUL - EWR legs, despite same aircraft, same inbound airport (EWR), same carrier, same inbound arrival times (afternoon).
The OP is trying to understand, why only the YHZ - EWR leg has so much additional flight time / padding. The OP's understanding is that if it's additional padding and/or congestion, then why don't the other legs have similar padding scenarios?
@Saxman66 provided a rationale response that the 'wind doesn't affect north-south routes as much...'
Looking at EWR - YHZ - EWR the following observations can be made:
EWR - YHZ: 1:57h flight time
YHZ - EWR: 2:07h or 2:33h flight time*
Note the increase of flight time on the return leg
Then looking at:
EWR - YQB - EWR
EWR - YUL - EWR
*The same 'increase/padding' of flight time is not seen on the YQB - EWR and the YUL - EWR legs, despite same aircraft, same inbound airport (EWR), same carrier, same inbound arrival times (afternoon).
The OP is trying to understand, why only the YHZ - EWR leg has so much additional flight time / padding. The OP's understanding is that if it's additional padding and/or congestion, then why don't the other legs have similar padding scenarios?
@Saxman66 provided a rationale response that the 'wind doesn't affect north-south routes as much...'
Feb 13, 2017 | 11:57 am
#21
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Don't forget that the altitude an aircraft flies at can affect flight time. Maybe because of more flights in the air, or for any reason whatsoever, United knows the afternoon flight might encounter flying at a lower altitude so they block more time than the morning.
Feb 13, 2017 | 7:48 pm
#22
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Is it common to have substantially different block times on the same route when the aircraft is the same as well?
I am looking at the EWR-YHZ-EWR route, operated with Expressjet's Embraer 145. Most days, there are two rotations.
EWR-YHZ flights always have a block time of 1:57h.
YHZ-EWR flights have either 2:07h (morning) or 2:33h (afternoon). Weekend or weekday, doesn't matter.
As you can see, the block time of the afternoon YHZ-EWR flight is about 1/3 longer than any EWR-YHZ flight. And that is not due to jetstream effect, as the morning flight is much faster. Yes, variations in traffic affect travel time, but wouldn't that be more a problem in the morning rush than in the afternoon, and wouldn't such variations affect both directions?
Generally, I wouldn't care about the block time. I have flown this route many times. But with the current time table, the longer afternoon block time pushes me out of the minimum connection time at EWR.
I am looking at the EWR-YHZ-EWR route, operated with Expressjet's Embraer 145. Most days, there are two rotations.
EWR-YHZ flights always have a block time of 1:57h.
YHZ-EWR flights have either 2:07h (morning) or 2:33h (afternoon). Weekend or weekday, doesn't matter.
As you can see, the block time of the afternoon YHZ-EWR flight is about 1/3 longer than any EWR-YHZ flight. And that is not due to jetstream effect, as the morning flight is much faster. Yes, variations in traffic affect travel time, but wouldn't that be more a problem in the morning rush than in the afternoon, and wouldn't such variations affect both directions?
Generally, I wouldn't care about the block time. I have flown this route many times. But with the current time table, the longer afternoon block time pushes me out of the minimum connection time at EWR.
For UA flights YHZ-EWR 2017/2/1-2018/1/31 I found the following stats:
Code:
origin | destination | timing | min | avg | max | flights --------+-------------+-----------+-------+-------+-------+--------- YHZ | EWR | morning | 02:07 | 02:13 | 02:39 | 365 YHZ | EWR | afternoon | 02:12 | 02:25 | 02:33 | 546
The description of the EWR-YHZ flight is similarly inaccurate:
Code:
origin | destination | timing | min | avg | max | flights --------+-------------+-----------+-------+-------+-------+--------- EWR | YHZ | morning | 02:07 | 02:07 | 02:07 | 190 EWR | YHZ | afternoon | 01:48 | 01:57 | 02:09 | 721
Using different assumptions for morning vs afternoon winds would explain this difference in average flight time in both directions.
Last edited by mduell; Feb 14, 2017 at 10:33 am
Feb 15, 2017 | 10:03 am
#23
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I was going by the schedule for May. There, the northbound flights are showing 1:57, morning and evening alike.
Is your data forward looking schedule data, or actual historic flight data?
And would you have similar data easily available for
EWR-YQB-EWR
and
EWR-YUL-EWR?
Very good point. Thank you.
Is your data forward looking schedule data, or actual historic flight data?
And would you have similar data easily available for
EWR-YQB-EWR
and
EWR-YUL-EWR?
Very good point. Thank you.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 15, 2017 at 4:43 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member -- please use multi-quote
Feb 15, 2017 | 4:06 pm
#24
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I'm using the schedules, as UA published them on 2017-2-1. Here's what I see for May:
And the full-year data for those other two airport pairs:
EWR-YUL has a some morning/afternoon difference, while EWR-YQB does not.
YQB-EWR has some morning/afternoon difference, while YUL-EWR does not.
Code:
origin | destination | timing | min | avg | max | flights --------+-------------+-----------+-------+-------+-------+--------- EWR | YHZ | afternoon | 01:48 | 01:55 | 02:01 | 62 YHZ | EWR | morning | 02:07 | 02:08 | 02:22 | 31 YHZ | EWR | afternoon | 02:24 | 02:31 | 02:33 | 31
Code:
origin | destination | timing | min | avg | max | flights --------+-------------+-----------+-------+-------+-------+--------- EWR | YQB | morning | 01:33 | 01:34 | 01:39 | 322 EWR | YQB | afternoon | 01:31 | 01:33 | 01:37 | 360 EWR | YUL | morning | 01:30 | 01:43 | 01:47 | 344 EWR | YUL | afternoon | 01:23 | 01:29 | 01:37 | 676 YQB | EWR | morning | 01:50 | 01:50 | 01:50 | 238 YQB | EWR | afternoon | 01:39 | 01:44 | 01:55 | 444 YUL | EWR | morning | 01:27 | 01:35 | 01:48 | 702 YUL | EWR | afternoon | 01:32 | 01:34 | 01:50 | 321
YQB-EWR has some morning/afternoon difference, while YUL-EWR does not.
Feb 20, 2017 | 7:27 am
#26
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Posts: 1,013
The 145's have very limited gate options at EWR. In the afternoon, when flights are turning and various delays are impacting EWR UAX operations from all over the country, it can become a disaster. I'm often waiting 10-25 mins on tarmac waiting for a gate to clear.
If I had to bet, I would think that the combo of UAX into EWR and the gate situation combines to create that cushion.
If I had to bet, I would think that the combo of UAX into EWR and the gate situation combines to create that cushion.