Do 787 LCD windows reduce cell phone reception?
Sep 15, 2016, 2:09 pm
#1
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Do 787 LCD windows reduce cell phone reception?
Hi all, have any of you also noticed that on the 787s, cellphone reception seems to be significantly reduced while on the ground? On other aircraft I can get LTE/strong reception even from a middle of the plane seat. On 787s (several now) I barely get 4G and often get Edge or worse.
Is it the LCD windows? Is it metal fibers in the fuselage with the carbon fibers blocking signal?
Curious.
Is it the LCD windows? Is it metal fibers in the fuselage with the carbon fibers blocking signal?
Curious.
Sep 15, 2016, 2:51 pm
#3
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It turns out that the 787, while fabricated from composite materials, uses a wire rebar for structural integrity. That rebar apparently interferes with cellular signals on the plane. He told me that AT&T was known to have issues although some of his colleagues had better luck with T-Mobile phones.
Sep 15, 2016, 3:17 pm
#4
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The Panasonic rep was right for the wrong reason. The composite structure does not need a wire mesh for structural strength - composite is stronger than aluminum.
But aluminum-based airplanes are Faraday cages, that protect you (and all the electronics inside!) from lightning. The 787 has a wire mesh within the shell to create the Faraday cage, that composite material can't do alone.
But aluminum-based airplanes are Faraday cages, that protect you (and all the electronics inside!) from lightning. The 787 has a wire mesh within the shell to create the Faraday cage, that composite material can't do alone.
Sep 15, 2016, 4:51 pm
#6
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The Panasonic rep was right for the wrong reason. The composite structure does not need a wire mesh for structural strength - composite is stronger than aluminum.
But aluminum-based airplanes are Faraday cages, that protect you (and all the electronics inside!) from lightning. The 787 has a wire mesh within the shell to create the Faraday cage, that composite material can't do alone.
But aluminum-based airplanes are Faraday cages, that protect you (and all the electronics inside!) from lightning. The 787 has a wire mesh within the shell to create the Faraday cage, that composite material can't do alone.
Pretty cool stuff!
Sep 16, 2016, 3:36 pm
#7
Join Date: Jul 2011
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The problem is almost guaranteed to be the windows, since they're activated by conductive coatings, which, thin that they may be, can attenuate cell phone signals. I'm sure the same is true for hand held GPS.
IIRC some cars in the past have had conductive windshields for defrost purposes, leading to complaints about cell phones and EZ pass.
IIRC some cars in the past have had conductive windshields for defrost purposes, leading to complaints about cell phones and EZ pass.
Sep 16, 2016, 3:41 pm
#8
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That is an interesting observation. I dont know how much work has been done on the electrochromic windows affecting radio reception, but Boeing generally does a thorough job during certification of looking at similar issues that might interfere with ac systems.
Sep 16, 2016, 4:07 pm
#9
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Have you ever seen this video of the faraday suit? High power line workers (V.2 Better Quality) - YouTube
Pretty cool stuff!
Pretty cool stuff!
Sep 16, 2016, 4:17 pm
#10
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The problem is almost guaranteed to be the windows, since they're activated by conductive coatings, which, thin that they may be, can attenuate cell phone signals. I'm sure the same is true for hand held GPS.
IIRC some cars in the past have had conductive windshields for defrost purposes, leading to complaints about cell phones and EZ pass.
IIRC some cars in the past have had conductive windshields for defrost purposes, leading to complaints about cell phones and EZ pass.
Sep 16, 2016, 4:41 pm
#11
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I haven't flown the 787 in an while but I remember when the doors shut and they started push back my 4g mobile internet cut down to like 2g at most. There has to be something that is killing our internet, not sure if the windows are to blame.
Sep 16, 2016, 6:37 pm
#12
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I've experienced the same phenomenon (highly frustrating) and understand it's the latter explanation: link here
Sep 16, 2016, 8:57 pm
#13
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I have a hobby of recording the GPS track of every flight I take using my cell phone. I can usually get a good signal at a window seat and maintain it for nearly the entire flight. On the 787 I get zero GPS signal.
Sep 17, 2016, 5:41 am
#14
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I can confirm that every Land Rover I have owned has been a problem for my toll pass. Each one has a very thick windshield with a electrical defrost feature. Works great for its intended purpose, but does cause interference for not only my toll pass sticker but even my cell phone on occasion.
And, on topic, it is very much the 787, though for some reason people seem to have less problems with ANA's 787s - I often observe no issue with a signal when arriving in Japan on their equipment. Perhaps the LTE bands are different?
Sep 17, 2016, 8:23 am
#15
Join Date: Feb 2014
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The Panasonic rep was right for the wrong reason. The composite structure does not need a wire mesh for structural strength - composite is stronger than aluminum.
But aluminum-based airplanes are Faraday cages, that protect you (and all the electronics inside!) from lightning. The 787 has a wire mesh within the shell to create the Faraday cage, that composite material can't do alone.
But aluminum-based airplanes are Faraday cages, that protect you (and all the electronics inside!) from lightning. The 787 has a wire mesh within the shell to create the Faraday cage, that composite material can't do alone.
If an aluminum tube blocks cell phone reception, then the reason why you can still talk on your phone while inside a plane has to be that there are holes in the cage through which GHz and other signals can pass through. The obvious holes here would be the windows, right? But the 787 also has windows, in fact it has larger windows than other passenger planes.
To me, that points to the electrochromic glass as the culprit.