Sep 24, 2016, 12:05 pm
Last edit by: Global321
From the United Website...
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
1. Request for Volunteers
a. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:
a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.
a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily
a. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
The flight is cancelled;
The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Point
[/INDENT]a. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Involuntary Denied Boarding on Baby's First Flight
Oct 23, 2015, 9:07 am
#91
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC / TYO / Up in the Air
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I have copied my response to the CustomerCare email below. I'm not sure anyone actually checks responses, but the email did not include any disclaimer saying "do not respond" so hopefully someone recieves it. Regardless, I'm sending a copy via actual mail to United's corporate office and its Tennessee registered agent.
UA offered me a token amount at first - until I pushed back....
Oct 23, 2015, 9:29 am
#93
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle WA
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I have copied my response to the CustomerCare email below. I'm not sure anyone actually checks responses, but the email did not include any disclaimer saying "do not respond" so hopefully someone recieves it. Regardless, I'm sending a copy via actual mail to United's corporate office and its Tennessee registered agent.
They (at least used to) have a special team of agents that responded to inquiries. A few years ago I got a call back within a few days from a competent, pleasant and empowered agent -- although my case was a bit simpler and did not involve complex DOT regs which may require a UA lawyer's involvement.
Good luck and definitely keep us posted on the outcome.
Oct 23, 2015, 10:07 am
#94
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 73
One other thing to consider, although the horse is well out of the barn at this point: with many companies, if you mention even the threat of legal action, the customer service people bounce it straight to legal, where things may be handled very differently. So while your response - which was very good - without the threat of legal action may have resulted in them upping their offer, even to the point of the full amount you claim, you might have inadvertently transported the issue to a very different plane indeed.
Oct 23, 2015, 10:19 am
#95
Join Date: Mar 2012
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IANAL, but I'l pretty sure that the lawyers on this forum have reminded us that the Airline Deregulation Act pre-empts United and other inter-state carriers from state consumer protection statutes.
Your recourse is to the DOT, not the state of Tennessee's Consumer Protection Act.
Your recourse is to the DOT, not the state of Tennessee's Consumer Protection Act.
Oct 23, 2015, 10:41 am
#96
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 42
Believe me, the Tennessee Consumer Protection Act claim is not an empty threat by a long shot. The "teeth" in the federal regs don't provide for recovery by individual customers, that is what state law Consumer Protection/Unfair Trade Practices Acts are for.
Oct 23, 2015, 10:41 am
#97
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IANAL, but I'l pretty sure that the lawyers on this forum have reminded us that the Airline Deregulation Act pre-empts United and other inter-state carriers from state consumer protection statutes.
Your recourse is to the DOT, not the state of Tennessee's Consumer Protection Act.
Your recourse is to the DOT, not the state of Tennessee's Consumer Protection Act.
Oct 23, 2015, 10:57 am
#98
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 42
IANAL, but I'l pretty sure that the lawyers on this forum have reminded us that the Airline Deregulation Act pre-empts United and other inter-state carriers from state consumer protection statutes.
Your recourse is to the DOT, not the state of Tennessee's Consumer Protection Act.
Your recourse is to the DOT, not the state of Tennessee's Consumer Protection Act.
That said, the United Contract of Carriage basically says that "If you are IDB'ed we will provide you X compentation." If they include that term in there contract but refuse to honor it, that is a breach of contract. If they put that term in their contract simply to meet federal regulations but with no actual intent to follow the term, that is an unfair practice that TCPA would cover. Its also outright fraud.
Oct 23, 2015, 10:59 am
#99
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That said, the United Contract of Carriage basically says that "If you are IDB'ed we will provide you X compentation." If they include that term in there contract but refuse to honor it, that is a breach of contract. If they put that term in their contract simply to meet federal regulations but with no actual intent to follow the term, that is an unfair practice that TCPA would cover. Its also outright fraud.
Oct 23, 2015, 11:10 am
#100
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Plus the whole preemption thing.
Oct 23, 2015, 12:44 pm
#101
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 42
Sorry this has devolved into an aside about preemption, that wasn't my intent. I promise this will be my last post about it.
1. I'm glad the above poster brought up Delta v. Black. That lawyer had the right legal theory, but the wrong set of facts. S/He argued that 14 CFR 250.9(b), provides that passangers that decline an airline's IDB offer can bring a claim against the airline in a court of law. The Court agreed with that position, but found that,as a factual matter, the plaintiff hadn't been IDB'd in the first place. Based on Delta v. Black, and the plain reading of 14 CFR 250.9, an IDB passenger who refuses to accept an airline's IDB offer is eligable to bring a legal action for damages which would otherwise be preempted.
2. A passanger's right to recieve a refund and 200%/400% IDB is included in United's Contract of Carriage. If the DOT reg requiring IDB went away tomorrow, United would still be liable to future customers for these payments until they removed the language from their Contract. Under Northwest v. Ginsberg, breach of contract claims against airlines are not subject to preemption.
So at the very least, I could sue United for breach of contract and would be entitled to the same amount that United *should* be required to pay me pursuant to the regs. Further, 14 CFR 250.9(b) make the preemption of a tort or state consumer law protection action brought by a passenger who has declined an airline's IDB offer, a less than black and white issue.
1. I'm glad the above poster brought up Delta v. Black. That lawyer had the right legal theory, but the wrong set of facts. S/He argued that 14 CFR 250.9(b), provides that passangers that decline an airline's IDB offer can bring a claim against the airline in a court of law. The Court agreed with that position, but found that,as a factual matter, the plaintiff hadn't been IDB'd in the first place. Based on Delta v. Black, and the plain reading of 14 CFR 250.9, an IDB passenger who refuses to accept an airline's IDB offer is eligable to bring a legal action for damages which would otherwise be preempted.
2. A passanger's right to recieve a refund and 200%/400% IDB is included in United's Contract of Carriage. If the DOT reg requiring IDB went away tomorrow, United would still be liable to future customers for these payments until they removed the language from their Contract. Under Northwest v. Ginsberg, breach of contract claims against airlines are not subject to preemption.
So at the very least, I could sue United for breach of contract and would be entitled to the same amount that United *should* be required to pay me pursuant to the regs. Further, 14 CFR 250.9(b) make the preemption of a tort or state consumer law protection action brought by a passenger who has declined an airline's IDB offer, a less than black and white issue.
Oct 23, 2015, 1:02 pm
#102
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What a horrific experience, particularly with a toddler in tow.
Personally I think the lesson learned is to book this route (and most <2hours) on WN. Southwest also overbooks but is much better about proactively seeking volunteers for VDB comp. Not to mention 737 beats an RJ any day.
I would not have known about the 4x fare rule for IDB so you learn something new every day.
Personally I think the lesson learned is to book this route (and most <2hours) on WN. Southwest also overbooks but is much better about proactively seeking volunteers for VDB comp. Not to mention 737 beats an RJ any day.
I would not have known about the 4x fare rule for IDB so you learn something new every day.
Oct 23, 2015, 1:58 pm
#103
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1. I'm glad the above poster brought up Delta v. Black. That lawyer had the right legal theory, but the wrong set of facts. S/He argued that 14 CFR 250.9(b), provides that passangers that decline an airline's IDB offer can bring a claim against the airline in a court of law. The Court agreed with that position, but found that,as a factual matter, the plaintiff hadn't been IDB'd in the first place. Based on Delta v. Black, and the plain reading of 14 CFR 250.9, an IDB passenger who refuses to accept an airline's IDB offer is eligable to bring a legal action for damages which would otherwise be preempted.
2. A passanger's right to recieve a refund and 200%/400% IDB is included in United's Contract of Carriage. If the DOT reg requiring IDB went away tomorrow, United would still be liable to future customers for these payments until they removed the language from their Contract. Under Northwest v. Ginsberg, breach of contract claims against airlines are not subject to preemption.
So at the very least, I could sue United for breach of contract and would be entitled to the same amount that United *should* be required to pay me pursuant to the regs. Further, 14 CFR 250.9(b) make the preemption of a tort or state consumer law protection action brought by a passenger who has declined an airline's IDB offer, a less than black and white issue.
2. A passanger's right to recieve a refund and 200%/400% IDB is included in United's Contract of Carriage. If the DOT reg requiring IDB went away tomorrow, United would still be liable to future customers for these payments until they removed the language from their Contract. Under Northwest v. Ginsberg, breach of contract claims against airlines are not subject to preemption.
So at the very least, I could sue United for breach of contract and would be entitled to the same amount that United *should* be required to pay me pursuant to the regs. Further, 14 CFR 250.9(b) make the preemption of a tort or state consumer law protection action brought by a passenger who has declined an airline's IDB offer, a less than black and white issue.
In any event, I do hope that UA does the right thing here, and without further delay.
Oct 23, 2015, 3:52 pm
#104
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 42
Oct 29, 2015, 9:58 am
#105
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 42
The saga continues...
The Good -
I recieved an email from a United "DOT Specialist" which acknowledged that I had been IDB'd from both Flight 5607 and Flight 4299 and was entitled to comp for both. They also acknowledged that I was entitled to a full refund of mine and my wife's full round trip fare.
The Bad -
They now claim that my wife was given the option to board both flights but turned it down and is thus considered a volunteer and not entitled to compensation. As a "goodwill gesture" they have said they will provide her with vouchures in the amount of $300.00 (which is around $800 less than the IDB comp they owe). They also failed to acknowledge that the supervisor refused to provide me with my statement of rights, depite the fact that I told her that failing to do so was a violation of DOT regs. They only apologized for any "miscommunication or misunderstanding" that took place.
I responded to the email letting them know that neither my wife nor I were ever given the option to board the flight seperately so any attempt to charactarize either of us as a volunteer is factually incorrect and seems to be a pretty transparent attempt to decrease United's liability for potential DOT fines and to skirt its contractual obligation to pay my wife's IDB comp. I also provided, in detail, the facts leading up to the supervisor's refusal to provide me with my written statement of rights or to otherwise put me in contact with someone at United who understood the terms of the Contract of Carriage and DOT regulations.
Now that my complaint seems to have reached a level where United is actually paying some attention, I hope that we can get this last bit resolved quickly...but I'm not holding my breath.
The Good -
I recieved an email from a United "DOT Specialist" which acknowledged that I had been IDB'd from both Flight 5607 and Flight 4299 and was entitled to comp for both. They also acknowledged that I was entitled to a full refund of mine and my wife's full round trip fare.
The Bad -
They now claim that my wife was given the option to board both flights but turned it down and is thus considered a volunteer and not entitled to compensation. As a "goodwill gesture" they have said they will provide her with vouchures in the amount of $300.00 (which is around $800 less than the IDB comp they owe). They also failed to acknowledge that the supervisor refused to provide me with my statement of rights, depite the fact that I told her that failing to do so was a violation of DOT regs. They only apologized for any "miscommunication or misunderstanding" that took place.
I responded to the email letting them know that neither my wife nor I were ever given the option to board the flight seperately so any attempt to charactarize either of us as a volunteer is factually incorrect and seems to be a pretty transparent attempt to decrease United's liability for potential DOT fines and to skirt its contractual obligation to pay my wife's IDB comp. I also provided, in detail, the facts leading up to the supervisor's refusal to provide me with my written statement of rights or to otherwise put me in contact with someone at United who understood the terms of the Contract of Carriage and DOT regulations.
Now that my complaint seems to have reached a level where United is actually paying some attention, I hope that we can get this last bit resolved quickly...but I'm not holding my breath.