Sep 24, 2016, 12:05 pm
Last edit by: Global321
From the United Website...
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
1. Request for Volunteers
a. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:
a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.
a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily
a. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
The flight is cancelled;
The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Point
[/INDENT]a. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Involuntary Denied Boarding on Baby's First Flight
Oct 6, 2015, 7:00 pm
#46
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dayton
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Plat, National Emerald Exec
Posts: 240
I see these "Boarding Passes" all the time. Its pretty common even on non - oversold flights. Half the non-premiere members who dont buy up to E+ will have no seat assignment until they process the moves to E+ and Upgrades and thus get new boarding passes at the gate from the agent. All are confirmed on the flight there just isn't an assignable seat until the upgrades clear.
Agree this really sounds like a DOT violation and as previously stated IDB x 2. Good luck and keep us posted. For future issues dont rely on the gate agents to do anything especially at non-hub airports. Mostly they are outsourced and capabilities vary widely. Calling united directly is your best bet.
Agree this really sounds like a DOT violation and as previously stated IDB x 2. Good luck and keep us posted. For future issues dont rely on the gate agents to do anything especially at non-hub airports. Mostly they are outsourced and capabilities vary widely. Calling united directly is your best bet.
Oct 6, 2015, 7:10 pm
#47
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
This rarely helps once the flight is under gate control which was the case in both of the OP's scenarios.
Oct 6, 2015, 7:32 pm
#48
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
A lot of quibbling about "maybe ifs" here. But, the bottom line is that no matter the size of the aircraft or the reason for the oversale, UA had a duty to solicit volunteers and it does not appear that UA did.
It is entirely possible that OP had PDF BP's w. no seat assignment. That will occur when one is booked onto a flight which is already under gate control. I've purchased ticket enroute to the airport and had that happen. Same thing if you do not have status and could not select a seat by check-in. When the Silvers have had their go at E+, you may already have checked in and won't have an assignment. Lastly, if IM approves a manual overbook, there may also be no seats to assign.
While the PDF's aren't good for boarding, whether they have a visible bar code or not, they also mean that any agent or kiosk can print paper BP's, so they exist. UA doesn't email PDF DMC's.
Bottom line is that UA will investigate, it can see every key stroke made, when it was made and who made it. Depending on the exact fares for each passenger for each segment, the couple could be due as much as $5,200 and a refund of their unused tickets.
The fact that UA offered cash in the form of a counter check is a clear acknowledgement of the IDB. UA just doesn't do that for customer service gestures and because the staff are outsourced at MEM, the approvals were given elsewhere. They were simply wrong.
That fact leads me to believe that when UA investigates, it will recalculate the $370 and come to the right $.
It is entirely possible that OP had PDF BP's w. no seat assignment. That will occur when one is booked onto a flight which is already under gate control. I've purchased ticket enroute to the airport and had that happen. Same thing if you do not have status and could not select a seat by check-in. When the Silvers have had their go at E+, you may already have checked in and won't have an assignment. Lastly, if IM approves a manual overbook, there may also be no seats to assign.
While the PDF's aren't good for boarding, whether they have a visible bar code or not, they also mean that any agent or kiosk can print paper BP's, so they exist. UA doesn't email PDF DMC's.
Bottom line is that UA will investigate, it can see every key stroke made, when it was made and who made it. Depending on the exact fares for each passenger for each segment, the couple could be due as much as $5,200 and a refund of their unused tickets.
The fact that UA offered cash in the form of a counter check is a clear acknowledgement of the IDB. UA just doesn't do that for customer service gestures and because the staff are outsourced at MEM, the approvals were given elsewhere. They were simply wrong.
That fact leads me to believe that when UA investigates, it will recalculate the $370 and come to the right $.
Oct 6, 2015, 7:55 pm
#49
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
I think there are some issues here that do not really make sense... they fall in the possible, but not probable category.... I think OP got confused on confirmed and standby for at least the second flight.
1. Did OP really have seat assignments or were they requested but never confirmed.
2. Did OP demand seats together and refuse to board without it?
3. Would an agent really confirm OP on a second oversold flight vs. putting them on a standby list? Doubtful, but maybe.
OP learned some tough lessons here...
1. Use online check-in - any problems would have surfaced the day before. And once they surfaced, get to the airport a lot sooner than 1 hour and 10 minutes before a flight. (IMHO - with a small lap child, that is cutting it close!)
2. Stay at the gate and request the denied boarding comp immediately in cash, as required.
3. Ask for a supervisor as soon as your are told to step aside. Start early and often.
4. Ask for a printout of second confirmed flight.
5. Ask for second confirmed denied compensation as required by law immediately.
6. As soon as OP was told to wait to the side, discreetly turn on your video and record everything!
1. Did OP really have seat assignments or were they requested but never confirmed.
2. Did OP demand seats together and refuse to board without it?
3. Would an agent really confirm OP on a second oversold flight vs. putting them on a standby list? Doubtful, but maybe.
OP learned some tough lessons here...
1. Use online check-in - any problems would have surfaced the day before. And once they surfaced, get to the airport a lot sooner than 1 hour and 10 minutes before a flight. (IMHO - with a small lap child, that is cutting it close!)
2. Stay at the gate and request the denied boarding comp immediately in cash, as required.
3. Ask for a supervisor as soon as your are told to step aside. Start early and often.
4. Ask for a printout of second confirmed flight.
5. Ask for second confirmed denied compensation as required by law immediately.
6. As soon as OP was told to wait to the side, discreetly turn on your video and record everything!
Oct 6, 2015, 7:58 pm
#50
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,053
I hope this is not considered OT, but this thread proves that if you tell your story without obviously and deliberately leaving out key facts, engage in the following discussion and assist in clarification you can get great advice on FT - even as a first time poster.
Oct 6, 2015, 10:23 pm
#51
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
Programs: Lifetime AS 1MM & MVPG, AS MVPG100K, AA, DL, HH-G
Posts: 8,259
Be patient and stick to the facts
A reminder to the OP. These incidents happen and it will take time to sort out. Be patient. Stick to the facts. Stick to your guns. Make sure UA knows that DOT is involved in every step of this. I will not guarantee you will be made whole but it looks like you have a good case with enough back up to prove your case.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Oct 7, 2015, 12:18 am
#52
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
Posts: 2,886
Is it possible that there was an issue with the oxygen masks for the lap child? Did anyone of the gate agents mention this? I don't know all the ins and outs exactly but on RJs not all rows have three oxygen masks directly over any two seats together. So if you want to sit together and with a lap child, you would be strictly limited to those seats that have it.
I just recently saw a couple, each with a lap child, get upset at being reseated because they did not understand this. It was in domestic FC and with only three oxygen masks overhead UA would not allow two adults and two lap top children side by side. The passengers asked for the next flight and the agent said it was an RJ which would make the seating even more difficult as there were only a few seats with three oxygen masks overhead, and none with the four they needed.
I just recently saw a couple, each with a lap child, get upset at being reseated because they did not understand this. It was in domestic FC and with only three oxygen masks overhead UA would not allow two adults and two lap top children side by side. The passengers asked for the next flight and the agent said it was an RJ which would make the seating even more difficult as there were only a few seats with three oxygen masks overhead, and none with the four they needed.
Last edited by uanj; Oct 7, 2015 at 12:33 am
Oct 7, 2015, 1:00 am
#53
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PMD
Programs: UA*G, NW, AA-G. WR-P, HH-G, IHG-S, ALL. TT-GE.
Posts: 2,911
Can I assume there's no risk for this since neither the personnel, counters, even planes, are United? (United supposedly forbids photographing or videotaping blah blah blah...)
Oct 7, 2015, 6:37 am
#54
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
However, when this later turns into he said, she said, if the airline starts lying to the DOT, it spells BIG trouble.
Oct 7, 2015, 6:42 am
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CHA, MAN;
Programs: Delta DM 1 MM; Hz PC
Posts: 11,169
I hope this is not considered OT, but this thread proves that if you tell your story without obviously and deliberately leaving out key facts, engage in the following discussion and assist in clarification you can get great advice on FT - even as a first time poster.
Oct 7, 2015, 7:01 am
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
Since we're into on-topic off-topic stuff, however, I'd like to give a
to whomever came up with the clickbait title "United Will Pay for What They've Done!" on the home page of FT.Mike
Oct 7, 2015, 8:11 am
#57
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 42
Just wanted to thank everyone again for all the suggestions and advice. As a follow up, we spoke with the "manager" for United in Memphis. This was the person that was supposedly on the other end of the phone with the supervisor that "worked" with us throughout the ordeal. The manager confirmed that the paperwork that was withheld when I refused the insufficient comp was the DOT-required statement of rights. She seemed concerned that the supervisor refused to give me a copy.
I also asked her if she could at least explain how United came up with $370. She said that, while Memphis staff has no control over the comp offer, it looked like the offer was based on 200% of one MEM to IAH ticket. I asked why they had used that formula and she said that it was because they were able to provide us with a flight that arrived within two hours of our originally scheduled flight. After I explained that (1) two passengers were IDB'd from the first flight and (2) neither of us was allowed on the later flight, she seemed very confused and said she'd have to talk to her boss and would call us back. We're still waiting on that call...
There was a poster a while back that commented on the sad and unorganized state of affairs with the United operations in Memphis. I think our issue stems directly from this.
I also asked her if she could at least explain how United came up with $370. She said that, while Memphis staff has no control over the comp offer, it looked like the offer was based on 200% of one MEM to IAH ticket. I asked why they had used that formula and she said that it was because they were able to provide us with a flight that arrived within two hours of our originally scheduled flight. After I explained that (1) two passengers were IDB'd from the first flight and (2) neither of us was allowed on the later flight, she seemed very confused and said she'd have to talk to her boss and would call us back. We're still waiting on that call...
There was a poster a while back that commented on the sad and unorganized state of affairs with the United operations in Memphis. I think our issue stems directly from this.
Oct 7, 2015, 8:24 am
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: CHA, MAN;
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Although it would cost money, maybe a short/medium term solution is for United to have the DL equivalent of a Redcoat stationed at MEM - a UA person, NOT outsourced. - my 2 cents
Oct 7, 2015, 8:40 am
#59
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
In addition to the compensation UA will give you, DOT may well fine UA for that failure.
Oct 7, 2015, 9:00 am
#60
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
The DoT rarely fines airlines for individual incidents related to overbookings or other customer service issues. Patterns are what get airlines in trouble. A single tarmac delay or safety incident, on the other hand...