Sep 24, 2016, 12:05 pm
Last edit by: Global321
From the United Website...
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:
1. Request for Volunteers
a. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:
a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.
a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily
a. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:
The flight is cancelled;
The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Point
[/INDENT]a. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Involuntary Denied Boarding on Baby's First Flight
Sep 25, 2016, 6:51 pm
#196
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So just a few more questions... Have any of you ever tried to find out directly from United how they apportioned the fares in a round trip or multistop ticket? Not just viewing the website when you book the travel, but actually a confirmation from United as to the amounts?
Well, that's a bit different then what you were talking about, which was a roundtrip. Multi-city complicates things. I suppose it could be considered a one-way ticket to DFW with a stopover in LAX, but I would think that would more be considered an 'open jaw' with LAX as the destination, but the return goes to DFW instead of the origin (MEM), hence the open jaw.
Sep 25, 2016, 11:17 pm
#197
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SEA
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Posts: 1,848
OP, I hope you're getting the sense that, although we're pushing on one part of your argument, we're mostly pulling for you here, and trying to help you strengthen your case. I think when you travel as much as the frequent posters here, you inevitably end up screwed by one or another travel provider (Hertz is my current foe), and end up in a process that's either too one-sided or to bureaucratically unnavigable to be worth pursuing to the right outcome. Thus, I end up pulling for someone who's clearly owed something by the process, and has the patience, motivation and enough at stake to take these next steps.
They are, really, not trying to bamboozle you here. This is how the computer builds all fares for all airlines. I often ask agents about fare buckets (which matter for upgrades), but ITA matrix and saudia are easy enough to use that that's my go-to when I need fare constructions.
As for why the fare construction went away? I think UA, a few years ago, decided they were getting too many call center calls about fare construction information. This was when expert mode (which lets people see fare buckets available on flights when searching) went away, and was eventually reintroduced as a an opt-in, which involved an agreement to, basically, not call asking about this information. But it's also when they switched the default search to picking round-trips by choosing separately priced fare components for each direction, so it's nor right to infer that they were hiding it; I think they were trying to make it clearer to non-experts.
I think you're far off track here...even if you win the stopover point (which I think is very unlikely), you're still only entitled to compensation on the fare to the stopover point (IAH).
And what you cost yourself is:
IANAL, and my experience with SCC is limited to TV, but I think pursuing the destination/stopover argument will distract from disputes of fact that on which you need the judge to agree with you. I think Judge Wapner would give you what UA has already conceded you're owed, and Judge Judy would throw you out with no money and pile of colorful metaphors.
This should not be the primary issue of fact going in. My recommendation is that you go to saudia, or just call UA, and get your fare's MEM-IAH cost; I think you have a long row to hoe to get a different value than that number. But from there, I think you have two (winnable) factual disputes that affect how your compensation is multiplied: first, that UA owes you 4X for the first IDB because the less than two hour option was found by you, not them; second, that your wife was also IDB'd twice. You need should focus on those points first: Did the GA offer to rebook you? On either the first of the second flight, were both your boarding passes scanned and rejected, or just yours? Was an announcement made that your wife was missing and she needed to board?
If, in discussing that, the judge gets really cheesed off at UA for failing to fulfill responsibilities required of UA by DOT, or just not sending a witness who could answer for UA on those issues, then you could argue for a higher segment value. But even then, I do not find the stopover/destination approach persuasive. I think the avenue to take there is asking whether your fare for MEM-IAH depended on your "performing" IAH-MEM (i.e., you not using the roundtrip as a one-way). This is weak for a domestic ticket these days...it almost surely did not. But if it did, then it is reasonable to ask why UA's liability for their performance of MEM-IAH was only related to that segment while yours was not.
So just a few more questions... Have any of you ever tried to find out directly from United how they apportioned the fares in a round trip or multistop ticket? Not just viewing the website when you book the travel, but actually a confirmation from United as to the amounts? I understand from some of you that this information used to be included in the receipt. Any idea why they took that away?
As for why the fare construction went away? I think UA, a few years ago, decided they were getting too many call center calls about fare construction information. This was when expert mode (which lets people see fare buckets available on flights when searching) went away, and was eventually reintroduced as a an opt-in, which involved an agreement to, basically, not call asking about this information. But it's also when they switched the default search to picking round-trips by choosing separately priced fare components for each direction, so it's nor right to infer that they were hiding it; I think they were trying to make it clearer to non-experts.
And what you cost yourself is:
IANAL, and my experience with SCC is limited to TV, but I think pursuing the destination/stopover argument will distract from disputes of fact that on which you need the judge to agree with you. I think Judge Wapner would give you what UA has already conceded you're owed, and Judge Judy would throw you out with no money and pile of colorful metaphors.
If, in discussing that, the judge gets really cheesed off at UA for failing to fulfill responsibilities required of UA by DOT, or just not sending a witness who could answer for UA on those issues, then you could argue for a higher segment value. But even then, I do not find the stopover/destination approach persuasive. I think the avenue to take there is asking whether your fare for MEM-IAH depended on your "performing" IAH-MEM (i.e., you not using the roundtrip as a one-way). This is weak for a domestic ticket these days...it almost surely did not. But if it did, then it is reasonable to ask why UA's liability for their performance of MEM-IAH was only related to that segment while yours was not.
Last edited by PVDProf; Sep 25, 2016 at 11:24 pm
Sep 26, 2016, 7:50 am
#198
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,995
OP -
I have been to SCC a few times. Here are a few thoughts...
First, SCC is a more casual legal environment. Respect the judge and the court 100%, but, beyond that, ignore judge Judy/Whoppner etc. There is very little drama. The judge wants to get through the cases quickly and has no time for emotion. In many places, you may be given the option of an arbitrator instead of a judge. (New York does this.) It is essentially the same process. Just be aware of it.
1. Do not let UA attorney's say anything about what the gate agent said or did. (Object!) It is hearsay and inadmissible in many cases. In SCC, they do allow these letters, but mostly on the plaintiffs side. If the letter is allowed, immediately state you have many questions for the gate agent who, you believe, will corroborate your version of the story. If the judge allows a notarized letter or other document from the GA, without the GA there, keep going back to the questions for the hidden gate agent. ("If Marcy the GA was here, she would acknowledge that I was xxxxx", "When I was at the gate, Marcy the GA said the opposite of what is written here.")
2. UA lawyer can talk about its policies as a whole (assuming he/she provides the court a copy!), but UA lawyer cannot talk about what happened that day. (Object!) The lawyer was not there - he is repeating a story he heard (hearsay). UA can say what was documented in your record, providing it produces a printout. If the UA lawyer just speaks to it, object (lack of evidence / assumes facts not in evidence).
3. Stick to the facts. Have a very VERY short summary to start your side. (Why are we here, what do you want.) Keep all your statements brief and to the point. Do not get flustered. Be very clear on what you want and how you got to that point. Have supporting documents for every claim.
4. Remember, your wife is a witness. Use her to corroborate your story. (If UA lawyer states any objection to your wife testifying, remind him/her YOU wanted the GA there to verify the story!)
5. Wear a suit or other appropriate attire. Bring the family. Let the judge see who was hurt by the big bad company.
Good luck
I have been to SCC a few times. Here are a few thoughts...
First, SCC is a more casual legal environment. Respect the judge and the court 100%, but, beyond that, ignore judge Judy/Whoppner etc. There is very little drama. The judge wants to get through the cases quickly and has no time for emotion. In many places, you may be given the option of an arbitrator instead of a judge. (New York does this.) It is essentially the same process. Just be aware of it.
1. Do not let UA attorney's say anything about what the gate agent said or did. (Object!) It is hearsay and inadmissible in many cases. In SCC, they do allow these letters, but mostly on the plaintiffs side. If the letter is allowed, immediately state you have many questions for the gate agent who, you believe, will corroborate your version of the story. If the judge allows a notarized letter or other document from the GA, without the GA there, keep going back to the questions for the hidden gate agent. ("If Marcy the GA was here, she would acknowledge that I was xxxxx", "When I was at the gate, Marcy the GA said the opposite of what is written here.")
2. UA lawyer can talk about its policies as a whole (assuming he/she provides the court a copy!), but UA lawyer cannot talk about what happened that day. (Object!) The lawyer was not there - he is repeating a story he heard (hearsay). UA can say what was documented in your record, providing it produces a printout. If the UA lawyer just speaks to it, object (lack of evidence / assumes facts not in evidence).
3. Stick to the facts. Have a very VERY short summary to start your side. (Why are we here, what do you want.) Keep all your statements brief and to the point. Do not get flustered. Be very clear on what you want and how you got to that point. Have supporting documents for every claim.
4. Remember, your wife is a witness. Use her to corroborate your story. (If UA lawyer states any objection to your wife testifying, remind him/her YOU wanted the GA there to verify the story!)
5. Wear a suit or other appropriate attire. Bring the family. Let the judge see who was hurt by the big bad company.
Good luck
Sep 26, 2016, 11:52 am
#199
Moderator: Information Desk, Women Travelers, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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Posts: 15,639
OP -
I have been to SCC a few times. Here are a few thoughts...
First, SCC is a more casual legal environment. Respect the judge and the court 100%, but, beyond that, ignore judge Judy/Whoppner etc. There is very little drama. The judge wants to get through the cases quickly and has no time for emotion. In many places, you may be given the option of an arbitrator instead of a judge. (New York does this.) It is essentially the same process. Just be aware of it.
1. Do not let UA attorney's say anything about what the gate agent said or did. (Object!) It is hearsay and inadmissible in many cases. In SCC, they do allow these letters, but mostly on the plaintiffs side. If the letter is allowed, immediately state you have many questions for the gate agent who, you believe, will corroborate your version of the story. If the judge allows a notarized letter or other document from the GA, without the GA there, keep going back to the questions for the hidden gate agent. ("If Marcy the GA was here, she would acknowledge that I was xxxxx", "When I was at the gate, Marcy the GA said the opposite of what is written here.")
2. UA lawyer can talk about its policies as a whole (assuming he/she provides the court a copy!), but UA lawyer cannot talk about what happened that day. (Object!) The lawyer was not there - he is repeating a story he heard (hearsay). UA can say what was documented in your record, providing it produces a printout. If the UA lawyer just speaks to it, object (lack of evidence / assumes facts not in evidence).
3. Stick to the facts. Have a very VERY short summary to start your side. (Why are we here, what do you want.) Keep all your statements brief and to the point. Do not get flustered. Be very clear on what you want and how you got to that point. Have supporting documents for every claim.
4. Remember, your wife is a witness. Use her to corroborate your story. (If UA lawyer states any objection to your wife testifying, remind him/her YOU wanted the GA there to verify the story!)
5. Wear a suit or other appropriate attire. Bring the family. Let the judge see who was hurt by the big bad company.
Good luck
I have been to SCC a few times. Here are a few thoughts...
First, SCC is a more casual legal environment. Respect the judge and the court 100%, but, beyond that, ignore judge Judy/Whoppner etc. There is very little drama. The judge wants to get through the cases quickly and has no time for emotion. In many places, you may be given the option of an arbitrator instead of a judge. (New York does this.) It is essentially the same process. Just be aware of it.
1. Do not let UA attorney's say anything about what the gate agent said or did. (Object!) It is hearsay and inadmissible in many cases. In SCC, they do allow these letters, but mostly on the plaintiffs side. If the letter is allowed, immediately state you have many questions for the gate agent who, you believe, will corroborate your version of the story. If the judge allows a notarized letter or other document from the GA, without the GA there, keep going back to the questions for the hidden gate agent. ("If Marcy the GA was here, she would acknowledge that I was xxxxx", "When I was at the gate, Marcy the GA said the opposite of what is written here.")
2. UA lawyer can talk about its policies as a whole (assuming he/she provides the court a copy!), but UA lawyer cannot talk about what happened that day. (Object!) The lawyer was not there - he is repeating a story he heard (hearsay). UA can say what was documented in your record, providing it produces a printout. If the UA lawyer just speaks to it, object (lack of evidence / assumes facts not in evidence).
3. Stick to the facts. Have a very VERY short summary to start your side. (Why are we here, what do you want.) Keep all your statements brief and to the point. Do not get flustered. Be very clear on what you want and how you got to that point. Have supporting documents for every claim.
4. Remember, your wife is a witness. Use her to corroborate your story. (If UA lawyer states any objection to your wife testifying, remind him/her YOU wanted the GA there to verify the story!)
5. Wear a suit or other appropriate attire. Bring the family. Let the judge see who was hurt by the big bad company.
Good luck
Sep 26, 2016, 12:18 pm
#200
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
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If united can say that using a hidden city ticket and not flying the last leg is against some rule
Then, how can they say buying a round trip ticket and denying you boarding to leave, doesn't constitute denying you the return flight.
Because it is essentially the same thing, buying a RT and only using a OW portion is also against policy or rules or some .....
Then, how can they say buying a round trip ticket and denying you boarding to leave, doesn't constitute denying you the return flight.
Because it is essentially the same thing, buying a RT and only using a OW portion is also against policy or rules or some .....
* Unless the timing makes making it impossible or useless, in which case they can refund (TIV) or reschedule (usually pushing it out approximately as long as the outbound delay).
Last edited by mduell; Sep 26, 2016 at 12:23 pm
Sep 26, 2016, 12:27 pm
#201
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
The fact that a definition exists for a stopover does not mean that every ticket/fare has one. Yours did not. I believe that if you attempt to pursue that line of reasoning the outcome will be less favorable than if you ignore it. And, FWIW, I've filed a SCC case against an airline before, though different circumstances.
Sep 26, 2016, 4:07 pm
#202
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 135
Yes but, that is a really good list of things to keep in mind for any of us non-litigators should we find ourselves in SCC. Thank-you.
Sep 26, 2016, 4:39 pm
#203
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,995
Given that fact, wonder why so many people are questioning his legal prowess on simple legal procedures.
Sep 26, 2016, 4:42 pm
#204
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Sep 26, 2016, 4:43 pm
#205
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 72
Sep 26, 2016, 4:45 pm
#206
Join Date: May 2010
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Sep 26, 2016, 7:19 pm
#207
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PDX
Programs: kayaker
Posts: 851
We feel that his case would be stronger if it weren't sidetracked by arguments that fail the smell test. More than that, I think we want this case adjudicated fairly (probably because all of us have felt rather helpless and unfairly ripped off by the big bad corporation from time to time) and his argument was a bit unrealistic.
Sep 26, 2016, 8:12 pm
#208
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I know we've debated the stopover vs. destination ad nauseous. But I'm still not clear what benefit the OP would get if IAH was to be determined as a stopover.
Sep 26, 2016, 10:58 pm
#209
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Sep 26, 2016, 11:17 pm
#210
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: PDX
Programs: kayaker
Posts: 851
I think emcampbe's point is that the IDB rules talk about fare to the first stopover or, if none, then to final destination. Therefore, whether you define Houston as a stopover or a final destination, the amount calculated should be the same.