dmurphynj

UA - damned if they do, damned if they don't.

If they add a flag stop, people flip out because of the hour delay.
If they don't, people flip out because they get stuck overnight.

Lesser of evils? That's the call ops managers make every day.

And I support the one they made. The one that brings most people home to their family is usually the right choice.

How we got there is immaterial; you can blame the system, consumer protections, Jeff Smisek, Ronald Reagan all you want - but when an ops manager in the hot seat has to make a call, they have to work with what he or she is given; and in this particular case, given this particular set of circumstances, I fail to see how the alternative call was any better.

LaserSailor

Our consumer protections in the US are far stronger than EU, they just reside in more choices rather than government regs. I like our system much better, personally, because I know what I want much better than the government.

haddon90

this was the best bad decision they could have made. moving 65 people is not easy, and it may have taken a few days. send the plane to IAD? i believe all the CLE flights from IAD were close to capacity.

UA should do something for the pax that were originally booked on the n/s to IAD, but to flip out and say UA is in the wrong here?

ctownflyer

Honestly, my only issue here is that UA didn't proactively offer some sort of compensation to the IAD bound pax.

fgirard

Is there a particular reason why UA didn't try to get a few of the passengers up to LAX from SAN, or for that matter, SFO? Even driving, it is roughly 2 hours from SAN to LAX.

TA

LAX offers no significantly better options than SAN, unless the issue is flight capacity out of SAN. LAX still requires stopping in ORD, DEN, ATL, CLT, etc to get to CLE.

ctownflyer

News to me.
https://www.google.com/flights/#sear...10-27;tt=o;s=0

spin88

I still would have not though it appropriate, but I would view UA's actions very differently had they proactively given compensation. People paid to fly SAN-IAD N/S, United took that from them, and gave them nothing. That is seriously wrong in my book. Absent consumer fraud laws being preempted by the 1978 ADA, United would have been sued for doing this.

Nor does United have a right to just decided who to take from to give to someone else. As an example, I just flew into SNA, my meeting was a few blocks from the airport, so I just elected to walk (not so easy in the O.C. ), yet, a car ride would have been nice. There were lots of cars in the parking lot at the airport, perhaps I should have just taken one, returned it later. At worst the owner would only have to wait around for an hour or two until I returned. Net, that is better right, they just have to stand around, but I don't have to walk w/o sidewalks. Yet, we would call such an effort to redistribute the load a little bit theft (and had I tried this, I would miss my return flight this afternoon ).

I see one instance, not many, you found, and that was SW, on a day flight, going from IAH to Austin to pick up 40 stranded school kids - who could not be put on different flights as they needed to be in one group, and were going to the same destination. Given the routing, its also a day flight. Not exactly the same as United choosing to add a stop to drop off folks, rather than working to re-route them on OALs, and disrupting a direct red-eye to do it.

p.s. and if this hits a nerve, its an approach that has been drilled into United by this management, that it can just lie, cheat, and steal, and never need say its sorry. Its a pattern of dishonesty. (see misclassifing delays as "weather", downgrading people, worst in class service, "changes you will like"). There is a story of AS doing this upthread - time is unspecified - adding a leg and flying SEA-SFO-OAK. Yet, per the report, AS opened the spigots and offered free drinks, tried to make up for it. I see no indication that United did a single thing for those it inconvenienced. Sadly that is what United has become under current management.

TA

oops, my mistake. I did not see the UA evening nonstop in the schedule.

They turned a nonstop flight with many passengers into a flight with a stop. You're going to claim that this is majorly different than UA's situation now?

channa

And that's part of managing an issue -- making sure that the customer sees it as a positive as opposed to taking something away or not delivering something promised or paid for.

I had a fuel stop on an AS flight once. Everyone received a $100 voucher at the boarding door.

Not the most generous solution, but definitely something of value to try to make up for the hassle. And it definitely quieted people down.

haddon90

and maybe they will offer something eventually, but UA should have been proactive to the folks who were booked on the n/s. that, i believe UA is in the wrong and deserves blame. "hey, we apologize, the offer is x."

but for people to blast UA for being proactive in handling the CLE passengers because of 'revenue' is silly.

question. on the fuel stops that happen in the winter going east/west...do airlines offer something outside of the AS flight you mentioned?

scruffair

For everyone saying they picked the best possible option, couldn't they have just added a SAN-CLE section?? Or how about an extra DEN-CLE section after getting them to DEN?? If it was caused by MX irrops then it would be the customer service friendly way to resolve it.

I was on a SYR-ATL flight a few months ago that got hit by a truck at the gate. They flew in another plane and we only arrived 2.5 hours late. And no other nonstop flights with space added a flag stop at SYR to pick us up.

It's a difference of customer service and care for customers.

channa

Yup, and it's not like SAN is exactly isolated. They have a hub at LAX, which is a 30-minute flight away. Or SFO, which is a 1:15 flight away.

I've been at much more remote airports where a rescue plane was flown in. This should have been an easy enough fix with such close hubs to draw from, had they had the appropriate resources and contingency planning.

shttrdrvr

This. None of us have access to which assets UA has laying around and how easy it is or isn't to upgage/add extra leg, etc. They tend to have max utilization rates and even if a A319 would be worth an extra section. still could have done more for the direct pax, though all FC gets is the snack basket.

pfbloom

My wife was booked on the SAN-IAD nonstop redeye that was "diverted" to CLE on Monday 9/5. UA communication of this change was pretty poor -- I found out by just happening to notice it in the UA mobile app when I was checking her flight status prior to flight. Destination had changed from IAD to CLE ?!?!

I called UA rez and got what sounded like an offshore (or at best inexperienced) agent who had no idea about the change or what to do. Even the supervisor was a bit unconcerned about the changes. Because I had no explanation and some uncertainty about the reason/extent of the CLE stopover I tried to rebook her through EWR or ORD in order to insure an ongoing connection would happen.

Meantime my wife tracked down a UA gate agent who was willing to change her to the SAN-EWR-BTV connection she wanted, in order to make a business meeting the next day. Explanation for the CLE stopover was vague: either refuel stop (unlikely, huh) or "we have to drop off a few passengers."

As it turns out, in checking FlightAware after the fact, I see that favorable winds and a quick 50 minute stop in CLE made the flight only 30+ minutes late to IAD. But IRROPS can be a tricky thing and I'm having less and less confidence in UA being able to make things work. Unfortunate and probably poor policy not to offer some compensation for the delay, and certainly the communication could have been much better.

I can't help but imagine how much better Delta would have handled this.