After midnight arrival (such as 2AM) transcons -- Why? Who?

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Oct 5, 2015, 1:26 pm

#16

haddon90

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fivevsone

I have taken this flight twice in the last couple weeks.

The ability to sleep for a couple hours on the flight, land and be home by 3am and sleep another 4-5 hours was an easy one.

I liked it and use it as long at it stays on the schedule.

when i fly home for xmas this is generally what i do (except this year). home to my parents house by 3, sleep till about 9 and i'm ready to go.

Oct 5, 2015, 1:29 pm

#17

sinoflyer

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For those of us who have done operations research and/or airline scheduling, some of the above comments are just music to our ears. I have no doubt that this off-hour flight was scheduled more for maximal aircraft utilization than profitability of that individual flight. To hear that so many people find a flight like this useful is cherry on top of the fact that scheduling usually trumps soft product in an actual traveler's decision tree.

Oct 5, 2015, 1:33 pm

#18

Often1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sinoflyer

This flight has been around xLAX and SFO for a good decade. The departure has varied to as early as 4:45 PM and as late as its current 6:00 PM.

It has to be the right market, but this route certainly supports what some might see as an off-hours flight. Again, look at the demographic on the flight and you'll see that it attracts what are likely HVC's.

Oct 5, 2015, 1:41 pm

#19

zrs70

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I, too, really enjoy the 6pm departure from LAX.

Mind you, my preference has nothing to do with good business. I fly the route once a year when I bring High School kids to DC. The time allows them to have class in LA, get home, and meet me at the airport. We arrive in DC at 11pm (LA time), and we get to the hotel for 6 hours of sleep.

Oct 5, 2015, 2:02 pm

#20

sinoflyer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Often1

This flight has been around xLAX and SFO for a good decade. The departure has varied to as early as 4:45 PM and as late as its current 6:00 PM.

I'm more referring to the 6pm departures, which are new within the last year or two. Yes, PMUA has long operated the late 4pm departures to IAD and JFK, which arrive around midnight, but they don't seem as outlandish as the 2am arrivals that are currently on schedule. (LAX-EWR also has a 6pm departure in addition to a 4pm.) I would be surprised if those 6pm flights top 60% in average load factor.

Oct 5, 2015, 2:21 pm

#21

Flyloha

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I've taken this specific flight several times this year, but have started taking earlier ones as it has often been delayed. It was getting in anywhere between 3-5 which is a really weird time.

Oct 5, 2015, 2:58 pm

#22

exerda

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sinoflyer

I've been on the ones that get in around 1:30am a few times, and they were typically packed. I can't speak to whether or not they were HVF-packed, though.

It's brutal getting home at 2:30am (I live ~25 minutes from IAD, but you figure baggage claim + getting to your car adds at least 45 minutes to the post-landing time). But it does mean I can get up to 5.5 hours of sleep in my own bed, which beats the 4 hours in domestic F on the usual redeyes.

Oct 5, 2015, 3:36 pm

#23

sinoflyer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by exerda

It's brutal getting home at 2:30am

I can commiserate with that assessment. I've arrived in LAX past 2am a couple of times due to seriously delayed flights. Myself, my biological clock is almost permanently programmed for the 5:30am wake-up call. I still remember the shock to my system when the completely dark cabin lit up upon arrival, and then walking out of the plane and into all those florescent lights. I was a complete wreck the whole day.

Oct 5, 2015, 3:56 pm

#24

chrisl137

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Even being LAX based, that's not a bad flight for me-- the ground transport at both ends is a bigger issue than the wake/sleep cycle. I would be awake at that time anyway, so the issues I would have are getting to LAX through DTLA for a 6 pm flight (takes about 45 minutes longer than for a 6 am flight) and then whether there are any rental cars left when I get to IAD (I've had them run out when I arrived much earlier).

Oct 5, 2015, 3:59 pm

#25

mduell

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There's some real misery out there, especially around thanksgiving to squeeze in extra flights.

Shorthaul mainline 2:30-3:30 arrivals:

Code:

 flight | ori | des | eqp |  dep  |  arr  |    from    |     to     |  days   
--------+-----+-----+-----+-------+-------+------------+------------+---------
 UA1687 | SFO | BOS | 320 | 17:57 | 02:30 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA221  | ORD | DFW | 319 | 23:52 | 02:31 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA1273 | ORD | SEA | 739 | 23:51 | 02:32 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA1872 | DEN | OMA | 320 | 00:05 | 02:34 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA1471 | EWR | SDQ | 739 | 22:45 | 02:35 | 2015-09-04 | 2015-09-05 |     FS 
 UA1872 | DEN | OMA | 319 | 00:05 | 02:36 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1644 | ORD | LAX | 320 | 23:53 | 02:38 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA1131 | IAD | SJU | 738 | 21:55 | 02:40 | 2015-11-21 | 2015-11-21 |      S 
 UA1644 | ORD | LAX | 738 | 23:53 | 02:40 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1273 | ORD | SEA | 739 | 23:59 | 02:40 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1131 | IAD | SJU | 739 | 21:55 | 02:40 | 2015-11-27 | 2015-11-28 |     FS 
 UA1931 | ORD | SFO | 753 | 23:51 | 02:40 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1248 | IAH | SEA | 738 | 23:50 | 02:42 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA783  | LAX | IAD | 739 | 18:50 | 02:42 | 2015-11-20 | 2015-11-20 |     F  
 UA1131 | IAD | SJU | 738 | 22:00 | 02:44 | 2016-01-15 | 2016-02-06 |     FS 
 UA1131 | IAD | SJU | 738 | 22:00 | 02:44 | 2015-12-17 | 2016-01-10 | MTWRFSU
 UA1131 | IAD | SJU | 738 | 22:00 | 02:44 | 2016-03-05 | 2016-03-12 |      SU
 UA1131 | IAD | SJU | 738 | 22:00 | 02:44 | 2016-03-04 | 2016-03-11 |     F  
 UA1131 | IAD | SJU | 738 | 22:00 | 02:45 | 2015-11-20 | 2015-11-20 |     F  
 UA1131 | IAD | SJU | 738 | 22:00 | 02:45 | 2016-02-12 | 2016-02-27 |     FS 
 UA1248 | IAH | SEA | 739 | 23:55 | 02:47 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA390  | ORD | IAH | 73G | 23:57 | 02:48 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA390  | ORD | IAH | 320 | 23:58 | 02:48 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA1471 | EWR | SDQ | 738 | 23:00 | 02:50 | 2016-05-06 | 2016-08-13 |     FS 
 UA1058 | IAH | MCO | 753 | 23:35 | 02:52 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S   
 UA1027 | ORD | RDU | 739 | 23:59 | 02:55 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-29 |      SU  
 UA1465 | ORD | ROC | 320 | 00:16 | 02:55 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1465 | ORD | ROC | 739 | 00:16 | 02:56 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M        
 UA1023 | ORD | ALB | 739 | 23:59 | 02:58 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S   
 UA1403 | ORD | ALB | 739 | 23:59 | 02:58 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U  
 UA1471 | EWR | SDQ | 738 | 23:00 | 02:59 | 2016-03-18 | 2016-04-30 |     FS   
 UA646  | IAH | MIA | 739 | 23:40 | 02:59 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1437 | ORD | SFO | 319 | 23:51 | 02:59 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA1271 | EWR | SJU | 738 | 23:00 | 03:00 | 2016-06-18 | 2016-08-13 |      S 
 UA1271 | EWR | SJU | 738 | 23:00 | 03:00 | 2016-06-17 | 2016-08-12 |     F  
 UA1271 | EWR | SJU | 739 | 23:00 | 03:01 | 2015-10-30 | 2015-10-30 |     F  
 UA1271 | EWR | SJU | 739 | 23:00 | 03:01 | 2015-10-31 | 2015-10-31 |      S 
 UA784  | DEN | AUS | 320 | 23:57 | 03:01 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA501  | ORD | BTV | 320 | 00:01 | 03:02 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA186  | YAP | GUM | 738 | 01:35 | 03:02 | 2015-09-02 | 2015-09-02 |   W    
 UA186  | YAP | GUM | 73G | 01:35 | 03:02 | 2016-03-30 | 2017-03-30 |   W    
 UA1223 | DEN | DFW | 319 | 23:55 | 03:02 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U  
 UA186  | YAP | GUM | 73G | 01:35 | 03:02 | 2015-09-09 | 2015-10-21 |   W      
 UA784  | DEN | AUS | 319 | 23:52 | 03:03 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1561 | ORD | PHL | 739 | 00:01 | 03:03 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M        
 UA186  | YAP | GUM | 73G | 01:35 | 03:03 | 2015-10-28 | 2016-03-23 |   W      
 UA2009 | ORD | ORF | 320 | 23:59 | 03:06 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U  
 UA983  | ORD | ORF | 320 | 23:59 | 03:06 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S   
 UA1941 | DEN | SAT | 319 | 23:55 | 03:06 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1941 | DEN | SAT | 319 | 23:55 | 03:06 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA1952 | IAH | TPA | 320 | 23:59 | 03:07 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA1271 | EWR | SJU | 738 | 23:06 | 03:07 | 2015-10-25 | 2015-10-25 |       U
 UA1952 | IAH | TPA | 739 | 23:59 | 03:08 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1825 | IAH | MCO | 739 | 23:50 | 03:09 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA646  | IAH | MIA | 739 | 23:50 | 03:09 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA327  | IAH | IND | 320 | 23:55 | 03:10 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA822  | ORD | BDL | 319 | 00:01 | 03:10 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA2039 | ORD | IAD | 320 | 00:20 | 03:11 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA333  | ORD | IAD | 320 | 00:20 | 03:11 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA686  | ORD | DCA | 73G | 00:20 | 03:12 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1430 | ORD | DCA | 73G | 00:20 | 03:12 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA1561 | ORD | PHL | 320 | 00:14 | 03:13 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA520  | DEN | MSP | 320 | 00:14 | 03:14 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA215  | DEN | MSP | 320 | 00:14 | 03:14 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA822  | ORD | BDL | 319 | 00:05 | 03:14 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA753  | ORD | BWI | 739 | 00:18 | 03:14 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA753  | ORD | BWI | 319 | 00:18 | 03:16 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1685 | IAH | IND | 319 | 23:55 | 03:17 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1729 | DEN | IAH | 319 | 23:57 | 03:20 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA1474 | ORD | EWR | 739 | 00:15 | 03:22 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA1474 | ORD | EWR | 319 | 00:15 | 03:24 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U

Plus the regularly scheduled MAJ-HNL.

Shorthaul express 2:30-3:30 arrivals:

Code:

 flight | ori | des | eqp |  dep  |  arr  |    from    |     to     |  days   
--------+-----+-----+-----+-------+-------+------------+------------+---------
 UA5284 | DEN | LBB | CRJ | 00:02 | 02:30 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA3989 | IAH | MSP | E7W | 23:35 | 02:30 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA5094 | IAH | MSP | E7W | 23:35 | 02:30 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA5582 | DEN | LBB | CRJ | 00:02 | 02:30 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3626 | DEN | DSM | CR7 | 23:50 | 02:31 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3628 | DEN | DSM | CR7 | 23:50 | 02:31 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA3768 | IAH | ATL | E7W | 23:34 | 02:34 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3675 | DEN | BOI | CR7 | 00:27 | 02:34 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA5568 | DEN | BOI | CR7 | 00:27 | 02:34 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3768 | IAH | ATL | E7W | 23:34 | 02:34 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA5282 | DEN | TUL | CR7 | 00:01 | 02:38 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3610 | DEN | SGF | CR7 | 23:56 | 02:40 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-29 |      SU
 UA4386 | ORD | SCE | ERJ | 00:05 | 02:42 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-30 | M     U
 UA6200 | DEN | OKC | CR7 | 00:08 | 02:44 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-30 | M     U
 UA6390 | DEN | AMA | CRJ | 00:29 | 02:44 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA4969 | ORD | BUF | CR7 | 00:13 | 02:46 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3529 | ORD | BUF | E70 | 00:13 | 02:47 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA5779 | IAH | CVG | ERJ | 23:30 | 02:49 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA3655 | DEN | CID | CR7 | 23:58 | 02:49 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3655 | DEN | CID | CR7 | 23:58 | 02:49 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA3476 | DEN | FSD | E70 | 00:11 | 02:50 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3702 | DEN | MCI | CR7 | 00:09 | 02:50 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA4878 | DEN | AMA | DH4 | 00:29 | 02:52 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA3551 | DEN | MCI | E70 | 00:09 | 02:52 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA5275 | ORD | SYR | CR7 | 00:07 | 02:54 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA3635 | ORD | SYR | CR7 | 00:07 | 02:54 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3551 | DEN | DFW | E70 | 23:51 | 02:55 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA6429 | IAH | CVG | CR7 | 23:40 | 02:55 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA5607 | DEN | LIT | CRJ | 23:54 | 02:57 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-29 |      SU
 UA5986 | ORD | GSO | ERJ | 00:08 | 02:58 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA5986 | ORD | GSO | ERJ | 00:08 | 02:58 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA5239 | DEN | FAR | CRJ | 00:01 | 03:00 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA3611 | DEN | MSN | CR7 | 23:53 | 03:00 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S 
 UA3609 | DEN | MSN | CR7 | 23:53 | 03:00 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA4452 | ORD | GSP | ERJ | 00:15 | 03:01 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA5501 | ORD | AUS | E7W | 23:55 | 03:01 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA5288 | ORD | RIC | CR7 | 00:04 | 03:01 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA4452 | ORD | GSP | ERJ | 00:15 | 03:01 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA3855 | DEN | FSD | DH4 | 00:11 | 03:03 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA4763 | ORD | RIC | ERJ | 00:04 | 03:04 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA3384 | ORD | BTV | ER4 | 00:01 | 03:05 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA5239 | DEN | FAR | CRJ | 00:06 | 03:05 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U  
 UA6501 | ORD | AUS | E7W | 23:59 | 03:05 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S   
 UA5282 | DEN | TUL | CRJ | 00:28 | 03:07 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA4210 | ORD | CAE | ERJ | 00:14 | 03:10 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U  
 UA4210 | ORD | CAE | ERJ | 00:14 | 03:10 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M        
 UA3621 | ORD | MHT | CR7 | 00:06 | 03:16 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M        
 UA3687 | ORD | MHT | CR7 | 00:06 | 03:16 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U  
 UA4431 | ORD | SAV | ERJ | 00:12 | 03:19 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA6261 | ORD | CHS | CR7 | 00:11 | 03:19 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-30 | M     U
 UA5273 | ORD | SAV | CRJ | 00:12 | 03:19 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA3714 | ORD | PWM | CR7 | 00:10 | 03:24 | 2015-11-30 | 2015-11-30 | M      
 UA3618 | ORD | PWM | CR7 | 00:10 | 03:24 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA5185 | IAH | GRR | CR7 | 23:49 | 03:29 | 2015-11-29 | 2015-11-29 |       U
 UA5711 | IAH | GRR | CR7 | 23:49 | 03:29 | 2015-11-28 | 2015-11-28 |      S

Oct 5, 2015, 4:09 pm

#26

tarheelnj

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Same logic on avoiding red-eyes going the other direction from the East Coast.

EWR-LHR: I always take the 9am ET departure, arriving 9pm UK. It's an extra hotel night, but you sleep in a bed and have a much better day the next day. The flight is a 763 with GF and J sections always full.

Oct 5, 2015, 4:10 pm

#27

PV_Premier

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mduell

There's some real misery out there, especially around thanksgiving to squeeze in extra flights.

yep, and with the fares all the airlines are commanding this year, its obvious they are selling the seats. i had to pay nearly $500 for one way SAT-OAK, granted not on UA but still. painful. thank god for companion fares.

add me to the list of people who will take the redeye over the 2am arrival generally speaking. of course, i buy F or use upgrade instruments on redeye flights, i'd not do one in coach if avoidable.

Oct 5, 2015, 4:27 pm

#28

Often1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sinoflyer

Load is irrelevant. All that matters is PRASM and if indeed my anecdotal experience and that of colleagues as well, it is generally sold out in paid F (or so the GA's say), and there are numerous people who say they are GS forming a Greek chorus about being relegated to Y on a Y ticket.

It's certainly not my experience that it's a 60% load.

The 4:45 PM was a bit nicer, but you sacrifice afternoon meetings in LA.

Oct 5, 2015, 4:29 pm

#29

haddon90

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Location: DEN

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Posts: 4,045

have they eliminated the noise abatement at DCA? i was under the impression flights cannot land after a certain time, and pretty sure 3:12am lies in that time line.

Oct 5, 2015, 6:17 pm

#30

physioprof

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Posts: 4,111

There is a regular SNA-EWR flight in that time frame. I hate it, and would rather leave the west coast around noon and arrive for a late dinner. My wife loves it, and drinks cocktails before boarding.

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