CEO Jeff Smisek Out;Oscar Munoz new Pres/CEO,Henry Meyer non-ex Chair;FBI case closed
Sep 8, 2015, 11:15 pm
#421
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Delta eliminated all but one Northwest executive from its senior management team.
It is about having people truly empowered to make a decision, and having a familiar team that trusts each other. And that involves some power plays at the very beginning.
Then the smart leaders like Anderson listen to what's going on from the customers and front line thanks to a trusted team that's comfortable sharing the ugly, and not trying to prove themselves to an unknown leader.
Having a mixed culture leads to years of infighting and middle level power plays that distract from the task at hand.
You can patch with a FF program for a year or two, but not 5 years of unreliable ops.
It is about having people truly empowered to make a decision, and having a familiar team that trusts each other. And that involves some power plays at the very beginning.
Then the smart leaders like Anderson listen to what's going on from the customers and front line thanks to a trusted team that's comfortable sharing the ugly, and not trying to prove themselves to an unknown leader.
Having a mixed culture leads to years of infighting and middle level power plays that distract from the task at hand.
You can patch with a FF program for a year or two, but not 5 years of unreliable ops.
I know that Wall Street/MBAs think its all about power, but complex organizations (particularly those with strong labor groups) don't work this way. There are good folks on both sides, and a visionary leader takes the best of both worlds, rather than obsessing about whether it was his side's way. The problem was the the CO folk set the terms of the integration, and it was all done the CO way. For sUA folks (with options) that was a reduction in every way in service and product quality.
I recall having a discussion c2012 with a very senior exec about the integration substantially cutting sUA benefits. I explained that unlike someone at IAH or EWR I could walk. He agreed, and admitted they might take a hit, but said "well we have to draw a line somewhere, so we are giving the CO folks more in the FF program and the UA folks less, they can deal with it.
Combine that attitude with a lot of anti-passenger changes, poor IRROPS, and devalued product and service, and you get to where UA is now.
And I don't believe the line that loyalty programs are dead. AA had a very successful one, kept folks from leaving in 2012 when their pilots decided to cause trouble. Today its still the best. Parker may cut it, but he may decide not to risk what happened to Jeff, and keep it as a safety blanket.
The programs get better when the airlines need them to attract traffic. DL does not need one now, UAL does, but it keeps pretending it does not...
I recall having a discussion c2012 with a very senior exec about the integration substantially cutting sUA benefits. I explained that unlike someone at IAH or EWR I could walk. He agreed, and admitted they might take a hit, but said "well we have to draw a line somewhere, so we are giving the CO folks more in the FF program and the UA folks less, they can deal with it.
Combine that attitude with a lot of anti-passenger changes, poor IRROPS, and devalued product and service, and you get to where UA is now.
And I don't believe the line that loyalty programs are dead. AA had a very successful one, kept folks from leaving in 2012 when their pilots decided to cause trouble. Today its still the best. Parker may cut it, but he may decide not to risk what happened to Jeff, and keep it as a safety blanket.
The programs get better when the airlines need them to attract traffic. DL does not need one now, UAL does, but it keeps pretending it does not...
Last edited by cerealmarketer; Sep 8, 2015 at 11:22 pm
Sep 8, 2015, 11:16 pm
#422
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,971
You read that? Are you sure? Thats common folklore amongst employees. He does travel with others often, and if he is in an airport traveling, he likely wont be alone since the airport managers will know he is there. But there is no security "entourage" assigned to him according to what I have seen and heard.
Employees hated Stephen Wolf as well, but he continued to fly for years on UA. Often transatlantic, he and his wife had a place in France.
Employees hated Stephen Wolf as well, but he continued to fly for years on UA. Often transatlantic, he and his wife had a place in France.
What I heard from a former CO employee is that Smisek is not nearly as approachable as Bethune or Kellner for employees. That, as you know, does not translate well for any kind of leader.
My impression talking to him was that there was no passion running an airline and I think that is part of the problem.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:16 pm
#423
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LAX
Programs: UA MM | BA Silver
Posts: 7,193
Certainly an exciting opening act!
I imagine act two will be just as gripping.
I imagine act two will be just as gripping.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:29 pm
#424
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Marriott Life Plat, various others of little note
Posts: 2,763
Finally, a change I like
Sep 8, 2015, 11:31 pm
#425
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
Posts: 2,894
Oh, today's resignations were very much meant to influence the investigation and its outcome -- federal regulators often consider the departure of senior executives in any way connected to potential wrongdoing as a mitigating factor in levying punishments against a corporate defendant.
To think the board would use this as cover for other reasons to dismiss is fantasy.
Today's announcement tarnished the reputation of the company - far more than letting someone go for operational performance.
No board with fiduciary interest would use it as cover for replacement.
We may never know, but am betting some indictment was pending that put the shareholder's interest at risk, and this may help deflect it.
Today's announcement tarnished the reputation of the company - far more than letting someone go for operational performance.
No board with fiduciary interest would use it as cover for replacement.
We may never know, but am betting some indictment was pending that put the shareholder's interest at risk, and this may help deflect it.
It is just strange a Harvard trained lawyer would be stupid enough to do something like this. I wonder what they were trying to get from Samson - something specific or a "general good relationship" thing? Why would Smisek/UA risk so much for any favors from its landlord? How come there was no internal checks and balances in UA to prevent this kind of stuff?
I have no grudges against Smisek and wish him no harm. But it truly astounds me to read what is happening. Thinking back to Rainey's departure, clearly there are many undercurrents at United Continental which we have no knowledge of.
Last edited by uanj; Sep 9, 2015 at 1:10 am
Sep 8, 2015, 11:35 pm
#426
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Delta eliminated all but one Northwest executive from its senior management team.
It is about having people truly empowered to make a decision, and having a familiar team that trusts each other. And that involves some power plays at the very beginning.
Then the smart leaders like Anderson listen to what's going on from the customers and front line thanks to a trusted team that's comfortable sharing the ugly, and not trying to prove themselves to an unknown leader.
Having a mixed culture leads to years of infighting and middle level power plays that distract from the task at hand.
You can patch with a FF program for a year or two, but not 5 years of unreliable ops.
It is about having people truly empowered to make a decision, and having a familiar team that trusts each other. And that involves some power plays at the very beginning.
Then the smart leaders like Anderson listen to what's going on from the customers and front line thanks to a trusted team that's comfortable sharing the ugly, and not trying to prove themselves to an unknown leader.
Having a mixed culture leads to years of infighting and middle level power plays that distract from the task at hand.
You can patch with a FF program for a year or two, but not 5 years of unreliable ops.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I see two DL lifers, three folks from NW (including Anderson) and one from Italia/CO running DL today.
Yes, United was fixated on the CO/UA politics, but whose fault was that? Anderson certainly has not let similar issues develop at DL... The tone was set by Jeff and some of his ill advised comments at the start of the merger gave the impression that where you were from was more important than doing a good job.
What you then had at UA under Jeff was classic group think, group think that was limited in its vision to running a fortress hub airline ex-IAH and EWR, without bothering to understand any other markets.
p.s. I agree that a FFP can't make up for "5 years of unreliable ops" but I don't think any airline is has has tried that. Gordo launched a better FFP program to win back HVFers. UA had one to make up for poor service product and give the best Flyers better service, then kept it as their product and ops got better, used it as a draw. AS has always viewed it as a major part of their stratagy.
The problem for UA (and likely why AA has not cut Advantage) is that if you give up the lock in by taking a meat ax to your FFP, when "unreliable ops" happen, then you have little to fall back on. That has been UA's problem under Jeff.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:35 pm
#427
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: LAS
Posts: 70
Maybe I'll start flying United again, although I've been very happy with Southwest & Virgin America.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:36 pm
#428
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SFO, HKG
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 91
Let's hope Munoz will usher in a true "friendly sky" to the loyalists.
Smisek probably should have been fired long ago given all the problems with United.
From the start, Smisek was focused on the wrong thing. Choosing the wrong IT system that resulted in the frequent problems that we are experiencing today is a major one. Smisek and the CO crew chose a system that was cheap instead of what's good for the future of the company.
Smisek essentially removed all the joy that we have come to enjoyed with flying. Instead, the company was layered with legal mumbos jumbos going against all its flyers.
The airline logo, liveries were extremely ugly and unimaginative. The employees uniform was supposed to be designed by a world renown designer only to be replaced by Cintas.
Using the old and horrible CO Business class seats on the brand new state of the art 787. Removal of First class because these CO idiots have no clue how to provide better service.
Smisek probably should have been fired long ago given all the problems with United.
From the start, Smisek was focused on the wrong thing. Choosing the wrong IT system that resulted in the frequent problems that we are experiencing today is a major one. Smisek and the CO crew chose a system that was cheap instead of what's good for the future of the company.
Smisek essentially removed all the joy that we have come to enjoyed with flying. Instead, the company was layered with legal mumbos jumbos going against all its flyers.
The airline logo, liveries were extremely ugly and unimaginative. The employees uniform was supposed to be designed by a world renown designer only to be replaced by Cintas.
Using the old and horrible CO Business class seats on the brand new state of the art 787. Removal of First class because these CO idiots have no clue how to provide better service.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:39 pm
#429
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
+1. To little to late. Forget the perks that are gone now, in the scheme of things they are nothing. But Smisek has had more then though time to reak havoc w UA, turn it into one of the worst airlines flying. BA was in the same position in the 80,s & early 90's and it took them over 10 years to recover.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:44 pm
#430
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
+1. To little to late. Forget the perks that are gone now, in the scheme of things they are nothing. But Smisek has had more then though time to reak havoc w UA, turn it into one of the worst airlines flying. BA was in the same position in the 80,s & early 90's and it took them over 10 years to recover.
United is really racing against the next oil price spike, or major geopolitical event which impacts travel.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:47 pm
#431
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Unfortunately Jeff will probably never get the credit he will deserve if UA continues the upward track its on. UA still needs some work done in key areas such as labor contracts, but the dirty work of transforming it into a highly profitable carrier with plenty of room to improve is mostly done. Munoz has a chance to reap the rewards of the previous leadership--not an uncommon thing with large corporations.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:48 pm
#432
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
Hirst I forgot about (lawyers...)
West had a layover away from NW - hired in on the Delta side - though clearly as a 'navigator' of the NW weeds.
Anderson had been away for 5 years.
Point being - you didn't have anyone part of NW at the time of the merger but Hirst and IT running the show anymore.
It was a clear message.
I bet if they went truly all-in CO style at the very beginning they would have made more mistakes quickly, but recognized them more quickly - since they trusted each other's read.
Instead, mistakes probably got explained away ad nauseum by insecure, unfamiliar mgmt team members trying to CYA, instead of being fixed. UA had Tilton as Chairman for the first 2-3 years which further complicated.
Same if they had gone all-in UA style and left Houston in the dust from the start. They would have course corrected more quickly.
I do think UA used its FFP to bandage many years of unreliable ops during the early-mid 2000s. It wasn't sustainable, and frankly not very profitable, but they tried it.
West had a layover away from NW - hired in on the Delta side - though clearly as a 'navigator' of the NW weeds.
Anderson had been away for 5 years.
Point being - you didn't have anyone part of NW at the time of the merger but Hirst and IT running the show anymore.
It was a clear message.
I bet if they went truly all-in CO style at the very beginning they would have made more mistakes quickly, but recognized them more quickly - since they trusted each other's read.
Instead, mistakes probably got explained away ad nauseum by insecure, unfamiliar mgmt team members trying to CYA, instead of being fixed. UA had Tilton as Chairman for the first 2-3 years which further complicated.
Same if they had gone all-in UA style and left Houston in the dust from the start. They would have course corrected more quickly.
I do think UA used its FFP to bandage many years of unreliable ops during the early-mid 2000s. It wasn't sustainable, and frankly not very profitable, but they tried it.
First, I have no idea what you are talking about the senior positions. Anderson (CEO) came from NW, hired to do the integration. He had no loyalty to the DL way. Bastain (president) was from DL. Hauenstein (EVP/CRO) came from Italia, and before that CO. Jacobson (CFO) came from DL. Gil West (EVP/COO) came from NW. Hirst (EVP/Gen Counsel) came from NW.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I see two DL lifers, three folks from NW (including Anderson) and one from Italia/CO running DL today.
Yes, United was fixated on the CO/UA politics, but whose fault was that? Anderson certainly has not let similar issues develop at DL... The tone was set by Jeff and some of his ill advised comments at the start of the merger gave the impression that where you were from was more important than doing a good job.
What you then had at UA under Jeff was classic group think, group think that was limited in its vision to running a fortress hub airline ex-IAH and EWR, without bothering to understand any other markets.
p.s. I agree that a FFP can't make up for "5 years of unreliable ops" but I don't think any airline is has has tried that. Gordo launched a better FFP program to win back HVFers. UA had one to make up for poor service product and give the best Flyers better service, then kept it as their product and ops got better, used it as a draw. AS has always viewed it as a major part of their stratagy.
The problem for UA (and likely why AA has not cut Advantage) is that if you give up the lock in by taking a meat ax to your FFP, when "unreliable ops" happen, then you have little to fall back on. That has been UA's problem under Jeff.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I see two DL lifers, three folks from NW (including Anderson) and one from Italia/CO running DL today.
Yes, United was fixated on the CO/UA politics, but whose fault was that? Anderson certainly has not let similar issues develop at DL... The tone was set by Jeff and some of his ill advised comments at the start of the merger gave the impression that where you were from was more important than doing a good job.
What you then had at UA under Jeff was classic group think, group think that was limited in its vision to running a fortress hub airline ex-IAH and EWR, without bothering to understand any other markets.
p.s. I agree that a FFP can't make up for "5 years of unreliable ops" but I don't think any airline is has has tried that. Gordo launched a better FFP program to win back HVFers. UA had one to make up for poor service product and give the best Flyers better service, then kept it as their product and ops got better, used it as a draw. AS has always viewed it as a major part of their stratagy.
The problem for UA (and likely why AA has not cut Advantage) is that if you give up the lock in by taking a meat ax to your FFP, when "unreliable ops" happen, then you have little to fall back on. That has been UA's problem under Jeff.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:49 pm
#433
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: EWR, BDL
Posts: 4,471
Let's hope Munoz will usher in a true "friendly sky" to the loyalists.
Smisek probably should have been fired long ago given all the problems with United.
From the start, Smisek was focused on the wrong thing. Choosing the wrong IT system that resulted in the frequent problems that we are experiencing today is a major one. Smisek and the CO crew chose a system that was cheap instead of what's good for the future of the company.
Smisek essentially removed all the joy that we have come to enjoyed with flying. Instead, the company was layered with legal mumbos jumbos going against all its flyers.
The airline logo, liveries were extremely ugly and unimaginative. The employees uniform was supposed to be designed by a world renown designer only to be replaced by Cintas.
Using the old and horrible CO Business class seats on the brand new state of the art 787. Removal of First class because these CO idiots have no clue how to provide better service.
Smisek probably should have been fired long ago given all the problems with United.
From the start, Smisek was focused on the wrong thing. Choosing the wrong IT system that resulted in the frequent problems that we are experiencing today is a major one. Smisek and the CO crew chose a system that was cheap instead of what's good for the future of the company.
Smisek essentially removed all the joy that we have come to enjoyed with flying. Instead, the company was layered with legal mumbos jumbos going against all its flyers.
The airline logo, liveries were extremely ugly and unimaginative. The employees uniform was supposed to be designed by a world renown designer only to be replaced by Cintas.
Using the old and horrible CO Business class seats on the brand new state of the art 787. Removal of First class because these CO idiots have no clue how to provide better service.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:50 pm
#434
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 83
Let's hope Munoz will usher in a true "friendly sky" to the loyalists.
Smisek probably should have been fired long ago given all the problems with United.
From the start, Smisek was focused on the wrong thing. Choosing the wrong IT system that resulted in the frequent problems that we are experiencing today is a major one. Smisek and the CO crew chose a system that was cheap instead of what's good for the future of the company.
Smisek essentially removed all the joy that we have come to enjoyed with flying. Instead, the company was layered with legal mumbos jumbos going against all its flyers.
The airline logo, liveries were extremely ugly and unimaginative. The employees uniform was supposed to be designed by a world renown designer only to be replaced by Cintas.
Using the old and horrible CO Business class seats on the brand new state of the art 787. Removal of First class because these CO idiots have no clue how to provide better service.
Smisek probably should have been fired long ago given all the problems with United.
From the start, Smisek was focused on the wrong thing. Choosing the wrong IT system that resulted in the frequent problems that we are experiencing today is a major one. Smisek and the CO crew chose a system that was cheap instead of what's good for the future of the company.
Smisek essentially removed all the joy that we have come to enjoyed with flying. Instead, the company was layered with legal mumbos jumbos going against all its flyers.
The airline logo, liveries were extremely ugly and unimaginative. The employees uniform was supposed to be designed by a world renown designer only to be replaced by Cintas.
Using the old and horrible CO Business class seats on the brand new state of the art 787. Removal of First class because these CO idiots have no clue how to provide better service.
Sep 8, 2015, 11:50 pm
#435
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: TPE, SF, DC
Programs: UA Lifetime GS 4mm
Posts: 891
^ hope new exec team will be motivated to improve UA upgrade process [give upgrade instruments equal or better priority vs TODs] & better soft product; it may compel many who have left to check back with UA again