Always Flyin

Get back to me in a year.

If UA was truly concerned about international connections through EWR from LAX and SFO, they could have gone lay flat years ago. They didn't.

Those who flew into JFK aren't going to switch to EWR. They will continue to fly into JFK on the competition. Those that flew into EWR on domestic aircraft obviously didn't care about lay-flat since they flew UA anyway.

Guesswork? Nope. Not when UA has not increased the number of flights into EWR. UA just gave-up JFK. Within a year, you'll be able to count the number of lay-flat seats into EWR from SFO and LAX on one hand. And there will be a lot more 757s parked in the desert.

This is not hard to determine with this airline. UA doesn't do "premium." It costs too much.

JOSECONLSCREW28

What makes you so sure that those who used JFK in the past won't start using EWR?

russmeyergirl

I am.

My last flight in I reluctantly flew into EWR instead of JFK (having never flown anything else in my 20+ flights there). It was fine. Doing it again in October. The airtrain into Manhattan makes it comparable. JFK is a sub-standard airport in terms of facilities (I would personally describe it as not to an international standard) so whats the big attraction anyway?

Always Flyin

If nothing else because even your airline isn't increasing capacity into EWR. UA is just dropping JFK. Even UA management doesn't think JFK passengers will fly into EWR.

I have a related question for you: why should the former JFK passengers fly into EWR with the substandard product UA offers compared to DL, AA and B6?

There will always be the odd passenger out who doesn't know any better, but you will not see much movement of passengers from JFK to EWR. They are two different markets.

russmeyergirl

International travellers on one ticket - not much option - they will only connect you through EWR.

phkc070408

The sUA 752s are in the process of being phased out. Only 4 or 5 of them will be left by year's end, and even they will be gone in Q1 2016.

So, this p.s. shift to EWR benefits me alot. Rather than flying nonstop SEA/PDX - EWR in a recliner, I'm more likely to fly down to SFO and do the t-con in p.s. It gets me a flat-bed and a few extra miles.

Always Flyin

West Coast travelers can fly non-stop to Europe and connect there to secondary cities. There are multiple reasons why that is preferable, including that it is one long overnight flight instead of breaking it up in the middle at EWR.

The JFK passengers weren't connecting anywhere anyway.

The lay flats to EWR will be short lived and fares will rise. The latter is really why UA left JFK. UA doesn't compete real well so they retreat to captive hubs.

russmeyergirl

No you misunderstood, well aware of what you speak of.

Inbound international to NYC - ie from Asia and Australia through SFO or LAX.

Always Flyin

Mostly only Australia. Most Asia flights can connect in ORD or IAD or fly non-stop into EWR.

From OZ, of course you have to fly into EWR if flying into the NYC area and you insist on flying UA. UA dropped JFK so that option is out.

What will you do when UA drops lay-flat from SFO/LAX to EWR?

Assume you are aware AA is starting SYD-LAX on its new 3-class 77W and you can connect at LAX to JFK on a 3-class A321 with lay-flat in F and C?

russmeyergirl

My October flight is showing the lie flats.

Probably still fly UA. UA have the best non-revenue options available J out of Sydney. Don't underestimate GPUs which clear 5 months in advance compared to Qantas etc that clear the day before and you have to use miles. No option out of OZ is anything compared to Asian airline J to Europe anyway. So for now, UA still have me...

Always Flyin

The abandonment of JFK isn't happening until October so I would expect to see lie-flats to EWR then. What happens next Spring/Summer is another question.

Are you aware that 1Ks on AA (Executive Platinum) get 8 GPUs per year--not 6--and they are good on any fare, unlike UA, which requires you to play the upgrade lottery on a W or higher fare?

spin88

I noted that. With DL upgaging 3 ex-SFO and 4-ex LAX to a 763 international, and adding a flight to LAX, DL is increasing its lie flat seats on the route by about 50%, and also will provide (on an international 763) the best ride by far in Y. This is a move to take as much of the PS traffic as they can get their hands on.

That ship left, UAL cancelled the JFK flights and did not increase capacity ex-EWR. United knows that those already flying from EWR will still do so, but the premium traffic currently flying PS to NYC will likely go to better airlines (AA or DL or VX, or even Mint). Delta is not adding premium seats to give them away, they are adding them because they know there is a lot of premium passengers looking for another airline.

Given that the soft product is badly sub-par, and the reliability is bad on on UAL, United can't attract the full fare passengers it used to, and so they have tossed in the towel. 9-12 months after it goes to EWR PS will be gone from EWR as well.

Fares will only raise if United can sell the same number of seats with more demand. Yet they will have more premium seats (by a lot) than they now do ex-EWR, and less Y seats, and absent them retaining the current JFK traffic (highly unlikely) this points to cuts in pricing vs current PS. I seriously doubt that much of the current EWR traffic (which is getting an upgrade or paying $600-700 OW for an A/P) will pay more to now fly PS, and unless they can attract people to cross over the Hudson, this is a recipe for either (1) discounting, or (2) giving away a lot of up-ops. While United may get a small amount extra over what they currently get for a P/A in domestic First ex-EWR (e.g. the kind of pricing you often see on the few lie flat sCO birds currently flying it now) I doubt they get more than that, and likely less than they currently get for the few sCO birds with lie flats.

I see some OZ traffic getting on PS, but little premium traffic changes planes from Asia, as they can just go direct (to JFK or EWR). Other than the connecting to OZ flights, PS was nearly all O/D traffic.

+1

UA-NYC

I'm sure there will never, ever, ever be any 73x/Airbii/753 subs either

UA-NYC

Just spoke with the JFK UC to say thanks as it's likely my final ex-JFK flight. They are of course incredulous with the UA retreat. They said an estimated 90-95% of regular GS passing thru JFK have said they won't be coming with UA to EWR. Not surprising.

Often1

Doubt it. Sour grapes by low-level employees who won't likely be rehired.

Most of those GS are corporate deals for global connections.