scruffair

Thanks for this! Fascinating! In fact UA has about 25 times as many cancellations as Delta has these DL delays.

UA-NYC

Any chance you could add in AA to the table? Again, to many of "us" that's the more interesting comparison thx

channa

I don't think anyone said that.

I said that DL's operational performance a factor in DL's revenue premium.

If you recall, PMUA used to be #1 ON TIME, and PMUA also used to have the strongest revenue premium among U.S. network carriers.

Again, it would be difficult to believe that PMUA's strong operational performance was not a factor in PMUA's strong revenue.

Also, it would be difficult to believe that high-value flyers are attracted to a carrier with poor reliability. If they're as important as their high-value tickets would indicate, their time is no doubt quite valuable. Why would someone like that give their business to a less reliable travel provider if a more reliable one were available?

scruffair

And it may be becoming more important for price-conscious flyers as flight search programs are more and more using reliability data. For example, the new Google Flights (growing very quickly) highlights in red letters that "this flight often arrives xxxx minutes late." If price is similar, which would you choose if you had no loyalty? The DL one with no warning, or the UA one that says it often arrives 1 hour late (that would be a good day)?

channa

Good point.

And also don't forget that the loyalty factor that you mention is becoming less and less significant these days.

With redemption rates increasing, and perks decreasing, customers are likely less inclined to inconvenience themselves for points these days.

fly18725

You said result, which implies correlation. I agree with you that saying 'result' was a mistake.

Without accepting or validating the positions you're presenting, I would point out that the flaw with correlating or linking operational performance to revenue is the variability of operational performance. You're not going to gain or loose a revenue premium on competitive route AAA-BBB (non-stop or via CCC or DDD) with a few days or months of having the best OT rates. There needs to be a systematic shift in operational performance over an extended period of time to attract new customers, who may or may not pay more based on the competitive environment, or drive existing customers away.

United's recent operational performance is bad. People try to blame it, and every other little change they don't like, on the mythical 'revenue premium' while ignoring fundamental issues like the mathematical construct of unit revenue measurements. Let's stick with a conversation that's relevant and constructive: why is operational performance sucking so much and what steps can we, as United customers, take to improve our travel experience.

channa

I said, "DL now has a revenue premium as a result of their product and service, part of which includes on time performance."

The relevant part, on time performance, I said was a factor (i.e., "part of which"). That means it is not wholly responsible, but there is a part. It could be a miniscule part, it could be a massive part, we didn't get into that.


And what do you think we have here? DL has been on top of their game (and UA performing below average) for more than a few months now.


It seems we are not in agreement as to how long UA's operational performance has been bad. While it's been worse in recent months than it had been previously, United still has had poor operational performance when compared to DL for the past couple years at least, maybe more.

Last year may have been better than this year, but last year was not as good as DL last year.

SFO_FT

Agree. They need to do a few things to improve OTP: longer ground times to recover from delays both at hubs and spokes, longer block-to-block times to reflect reality, keeping spare a/c at key points in the system, having flight crews stay with an aircraft's set of flights rather than having them "connect" at hubs like pax do.

SFO_FT

OP here. Notice that we haven't heard any UA pilots or other crew as to why there are so many MX. I'm going to start asking my crews and think it would be good if others did as well. Please report back what they say. I feel sorry for the FAs -- they have to live with this more than we do!

mduell

"they're not very good"

fly18725

If you do not believe OT performance is correlated or wholly responsible for revenue performance, why raise the issue of revenue premiums in a thread about OT performance?

I haven't commented on the duration of operational performance trends for a specific carrier. I simply said there needs to be sustained trends operational performance, which is inherently volatile, for it to have an impact on customer loyalty and/or revenue metrics.

If you'd like to discuss something other than why is operational performance sucking so much and what steps can we, as United customers, take to improve our travel experience, please send me a PM.

channa

Because the infamous "diminishing returns" comment came up.

The current management team has a very shortsighted approach in various areas, I question whether they're capable of calculating the future business cost (or benefits) associated with poor (or good) operational performance.


I'm glad you acknowledge that. It's very possible UA is at the point where it's taking a toll on revenue.

I wonder if these diminishing returns are factored into UA's estimates.

river_rower

I am starting to think that it has gotten measurably worse in the last six months as well. My flight to FRA last week went MX on the first leg and blew the entire itinerary. The 1K desk rerouted me through SEA on LH (and protected my upgrade that I purchased with miles on the original routing). No delays on LH!

Then returning home, guess what? Departing FRA-ORD on the first leg, the UA 777 went MX and had a 45 minute delay. No biggie except UA scheduled me originally with a 90 minute connection in ORD from International to Domestic. Miraculously I made the connection in 30 minutes due to Global Entry, carry-on luggage, TSA precheck and a lot of jogging through the tunnel.

But it has me seriously contemplating DL next year. I am tired and getting stuck in an airport hotel because of equipment issues.

nnn

I don't know -- I found this post interesting:

freshairborne

Interesting thread. I don't really have anything juicy to contribute here but I will say this: I have flown precious little international and zero widebody airplanes, so this is purely a narrowbody domestic observation. I have not seen any appreciable change in dispatch reliability flying 757s.

FAB