Diet Coke a Weapon?
May 31, 2015, 11:14 am
#76
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
But I guess I just can't get most of you to understand what I am actually getting at. I am not saying United is blameless. I have never said that in any of the posts. All I have said is that the problems on United Express are giving United a black eye and United needs to deal with the contractors. As I have tried to explain, I am looking at the internal side of things, not what the public perception is. So this is all I am going to say on the subject and if you don't get what I am getting at, oh well.
May 31, 2015, 11:25 am
#77
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
About United
United Airlines operates an average of nearly 5,000 flights a day to 373 airports across six continents. Of these 5000 flights, over 4000 of them are operated by small express carriers that we accept zero responsibility for. In 2014, United and United Express operated nearly two million flights carrying 138 million customers. Most of these were operated by United Express which proudly fly the Embraer 145 on segments over 3hrs without wifi, entertainment, power or food. United is proud to have the world's most comprehensive route network We have U.S. mainland hubs in Chicago, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, New York/Newark, San Francisco and Washington, D.C. We are proud to announce that in Denver and Chicago, over 70% of our flights are operated on these small Express Aircraft (again, not operated by us, and we accept no responsibility for their behavior). Despite Falling at the bottom of major surveys, DOT statistics and even our own internal metrics (which DON'T include Express) for several years, it is not our fault. Employees and customers just expect too much. In time our lower performance will match your lower expectations, and we will become your favorite airline again.
United Airlines operates an average of nearly 5,000 flights a day to 373 airports across six continents. Of these 5000 flights, over 4000 of them are operated by small express carriers that we accept zero responsibility for. In 2014, United and United Express operated nearly two million flights carrying 138 million customers. Most of these were operated by United Express which proudly fly the Embraer 145 on segments over 3hrs without wifi, entertainment, power or food. United is proud to have the world's most comprehensive route network We have U.S. mainland hubs in Chicago, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, New York/Newark, San Francisco and Washington, D.C. We are proud to announce that in Denver and Chicago, over 70% of our flights are operated on these small Express Aircraft (again, not operated by us, and we accept no responsibility for their behavior). Despite Falling at the bottom of major surveys, DOT statistics and even our own internal metrics (which DON'T include Express) for several years, it is not our fault. Employees and customers just expect too much. In time our lower performance will match your lower expectations, and we will become your favorite airline again.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 31, 2015 at 11:39 am Reason: Dicuss the issues, not the posters
May 31, 2015, 11:37 am
#78
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
Being struck with an unopened can will certainly tend to do more damage than the opened can. The opened can allows coke to be expelled out thus somewhat muting the energy transfer to the struck body.
OK, I admit that it is absurdly unlikely she thought of this, and even more that the airline did.
Back on topic, this might be a typical case of inconsistant rule enforcement (and BS explanations thereof), but the religious issue seams a reach.
May 31, 2015, 11:39 am
#79
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: UA SP, DL SM MM, AS 75K, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Diamond.
Posts: 2,596
United has a customer service/respect problem that can only be traced to the corporate culture. Just about the only thing I've seen pmUA and pmCO service employees agree on is a universal distain for Smisek. When the king is disrespected, there is very little you can do to improve attitudes.
Assessing the validity of discrimination when you are not part of the discriminated group, demonstrates the problem, you simply don't have the perspective to understand. Respect is earned, not granted. Fear comes with the position and title, it's not the same
I've seen several people over the years ask for an unopened can, even saw one lady apply a dab of Purell and then wipe the entire top of the can, paying particular attention to the ridge around the top. I'm not a germaphobe, so I don't do this, but I find it necessary to question people that do.
Sure it says United "express" on the side, the express is a lighter type face. Straw man arguments aside, it looks a heck of a lot like a United plane to me.
Assessing the validity of discrimination when you are not part of the discriminated group, demonstrates the problem, you simply don't have the perspective to understand. Respect is earned, not granted. Fear comes with the position and title, it's not the same
I've seen several people over the years ask for an unopened can, even saw one lady apply a dab of Purell and then wipe the entire top of the can, paying particular attention to the ridge around the top. I'm not a germaphobe, so I don't do this, but I find it necessary to question people that do.
Sure it says United "express" on the side, the express is a lighter type face. Straw man arguments aside, it looks a heck of a lot like a United plane to me.
May 31, 2015, 11:41 am
#80
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,881
Last I saw on all United Express flights the words UNITED EXPRESS are painted on the side of the plane. So shouldn't you have said (keeping in line with your other 2 lines) "People should then blame "United" for rude flight attendants on "United Express" Flights"?
But I guess I just can't get most of you to understand what I am actually getting at. I am not saying United is blameless. I have never said that in any of the posts. All I have said is that the problems on United Express are giving United a black eye and United needs to deal with the contractors. As I have tried to explain, I am looking at the internal side of things, not what the public perception is. So this is all I am going to say on the subject and if you don't get what I am getting at, oh well.
But I guess I just can't get most of you to understand what I am actually getting at. I am not saying United is blameless. I have never said that in any of the posts. All I have said is that the problems on United Express are giving United a black eye and United needs to deal with the contractors. As I have tried to explain, I am looking at the internal side of things, not what the public perception is. So this is all I am going to say on the subject and if you don't get what I am getting at, oh well.
Public perception is significant with a brand's success.
If United didn't want to full consequences for their contract employees' actions, then they should have all their regional carriers in their own liveries.
May 31, 2015, 11:41 am
#81
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
It's United's brand so they should be managing it no matter the internal contracting choices they make. It is their brand to destroy if they don't (and they seem to have been working pretty hard to do that over the past few years). Coke gets bottled by other companies in places but it better be "Coke" or the brand suffers.
The fundamental values of the entire operation come from the top. If the management said clearly (and executed to) that customer service was a number one value and that failures in customer service were not to be accepted then that value set would permeate the organization over time. But it has to be real - it has to be backed by tools, empowerment, employee feedback (positive and negative) and contract management of external suppliers operating under the UA brand. Until there is a real attitude change at the top employees and contractors will be very good at decoding "what really counts" and will continue to act accordingly. Just having a marketing slogan of being friendly is meaningless without conviction from the top that clearly isn't there today.
The fundamental values of the entire operation come from the top. If the management said clearly (and executed to) that customer service was a number one value and that failures in customer service were not to be accepted then that value set would permeate the organization over time. But it has to be real - it has to be backed by tools, empowerment, employee feedback (positive and negative) and contract management of external suppliers operating under the UA brand. Until there is a real attitude change at the top employees and contractors will be very good at decoding "what really counts" and will continue to act accordingly. Just having a marketing slogan of being friendly is meaningless without conviction from the top that clearly isn't there today.
May 31, 2015, 11:46 am
#82
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
It's United's brand so they should be managing it no matter the internal contracting choices they make. It is their brand to destroy if they don't (and they seem to have been working pretty hard to do that over the past few years). Coke gets bottled by other companies in places but it better be "Coke" or the brand suffers.
The fundamental values of the entire operation come from the top. If the management said clearly (and executed to) that customer service was a number one value and that failures in customer service were not to be accepted then that value set would permeate the organization over time. But it has to be real - it has to be backed by tools, empowerment, employee feedback (positive and negative) and contract management of external suppliers operating under the UA brand. Until there is a real attitude change at the top employees and contractors will be very good at decoding "what really counts" and will continue to act accordingly. Just having a marketing slogan of being friendly is meaningless without conviction from the top that clearly isn't there today.
The fundamental values of the entire operation come from the top. If the management said clearly (and executed to) that customer service was a number one value and that failures in customer service were not to be accepted then that value set would permeate the organization over time. But it has to be real - it has to be backed by tools, empowerment, employee feedback (positive and negative) and contract management of external suppliers operating under the UA brand. Until there is a real attitude change at the top employees and contractors will be very good at decoding "what really counts" and will continue to act accordingly. Just having a marketing slogan of being friendly is meaningless without conviction from the top that clearly isn't there today.
May 31, 2015, 12:10 pm
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 19,506
The only way I know to "weaponize" Diet Coke® is to add Mentos®.
Surprised no one has brought that up.
Surprised no one has brought that up.
May 31, 2015, 12:13 pm
#84
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
May 31, 2015, 12:42 pm
#86
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Jeff and his minions set (1) policy and (2) a culture, both of which impact (or should i say "infect"
) the entire airline and its "regional partners." Notably I don't see the issues I see on "UnitedExpress" on "DeltaConnection" or "DeltaShuttle" flights, and the operating carriers is often the same. And I seriously doubt that anyone getting on a *A (or a SkyTEAM, etc) livery plane thinks they are on anything but the operating carrier (e.g. UA or DL), and will hold them accountable. Similarly, I think that probably 95% of people if they are flying on a UA ticket on LH or ANA will think LH or ANA is responsible, unless its an issue caused by UA.
United has a customer service/respect problem that can only be traced to the corporate culture. Just about the only thing I've seen pmUA and pmCO service employees agree on is a universal disdain for Smisek. When the king is disrespected, there is very little you can do to improve attitudes.
It's United's brand so they should be managing it no matter the internal contracting choices they make. It is their brand to destroy if they don't (and they seem to have been working pretty hard to do that over the past few years). Coke gets bottled by other companies in places but it better be "Coke" or the brand suffers.
The fundamental values of the entire operation come from the top. If the management said clearly (and executed to) that customer service was a number one value and that failures in customer service were not to be accepted then that value set would permeate the organization over time. But it has to be real - it has to be backed by tools, empowerment, employee feedback (positive and negative) and contract management of external suppliers operating under the UA brand. Until there is a real attitude change at the top employees and contractors will be very good at decoding "what really counts" and will continue to act accordingly. Just having a marketing slogan of being friendly is meaningless without conviction from the top that clearly isn't there today.
The fundamental values of the entire operation come from the top. If the management said clearly (and executed to) that customer service was a number one value and that failures in customer service were not to be accepted then that value set would permeate the organization over time. But it has to be real - it has to be backed by tools, empowerment, employee feedback (positive and negative) and contract management of external suppliers operating under the UA brand. Until there is a real attitude change at the top employees and contractors will be very good at decoding "what really counts" and will continue to act accordingly. Just having a marketing slogan of being friendly is meaningless without conviction from the top that clearly isn't there today.
May 31, 2015, 12:49 pm
#87
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: DYKWIA, But I'm a "Diamond Guest" UA 1K/2MM
Posts: 2,257
And yes coke in a can + mentos could be very effective. Think lots of aluminum shrapnel.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 31, 2015 at 1:04 pm Reason: http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#moderatoractions
May 31, 2015, 1:09 pm
#88
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A Coke can with Mentos added won't make for shrapnel. It will just fizz out of the top of the can through which the Mentos is added to the can in-flight,
Then someone fed the airline employee with the idea, and the question that follows is "who/which party" provided the training/education that specified that an unopened can is more dangerous than an open can and likely to be used as a weapon on board by a "suspicious" "terrorist" or other "suspect" nut job/criminal.
Perhaps the FA had a degree in physics?
Being struck with an unopened can will certainly tend to do more damage than the opened can. The opened can allows coke to be expelled out thus somewhat muting the energy transfer to the struck body.
OK, I admit that it is absurdly unlikely she thought of this, and even more that the airline did.
Being struck with an unopened can will certainly tend to do more damage than the opened can. The opened can allows coke to be expelled out thus somewhat muting the energy transfer to the struck body.
OK, I admit that it is absurdly unlikely she thought of this, and even more that the airline did.
May 31, 2015, 1:11 pm
#89
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
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My guess as to what happened? The passenger asked for the slight favor of getting the whole can of soda. The FA served it to her open, after which it can no longer be served to anyone else. The passenger then pulled her little "cleanliness" drama and demanded a second whole can, and the FA was exasperated and fed her the story.
May 31, 2015, 1:46 pm
#90
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
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Posts: 16,901
A Coke can with Mentos added won't make for shrapnel. It will just fizz out of the top of the can through which the Mentos is added to the can in-flight,
Then someone fed the airline employee with the idea, and the question that follows is "who/which party" provided the training/education that specified that an unopened can is more dangerous than an open can and likely to be used as a weapon on board by a "suspicious" "terrorist" or other "suspect" nut job/criminal.
Then someone fed the airline employee with the idea, and the question that follows is "who/which party" provided the training/education that specified that an unopened can is more dangerous than an open can and likely to be used as a weapon on board by a "suspicious" "terrorist" or other "suspect" nut job/criminal.