Jan 19, 2015, 1:50 am
Last edit by: Kacee
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Questions on Open Jaw/Stopover and Award Routings for United UA/*A Partners [2015]
Jan 13, 2015, 2:05 pm
#31
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Under the Cone of Silence
Programs: UA Gold; AA Dirt; HH Diamond; National Emerald; CONTROL SecretAgent Platinum; KAOS EvilFlyer Gold
Posts: 1,499
All,
I am putting together a trip for next January and wanted some help and ideas.
Leg 1 (miles/stopover)
AUS-IAH-YYZ-DEL on Air Canada 787 business class, might try AUS-EWR-DEL
Stop in Delhi for 3 nights
Leg 2 (miles/stopover)
Del - MAA Air India or Jet airways first class
Stop in MAA for 10 nights or so
Leg 3 paid (it appears to be an all economy flight hence I thought I would pay for this segment)
MAA - MLE Air India
Stay in MLE for 4 nights or so
Leg 4 miles (miles/open jaw)
MLE- XXX-XXX-Aus (might need another transfer city)
1) Is this a valid routing and what would the cost in miles be?
2) Apparently Lufthansa is going to start MLE - FRA. I believe I could also fly MLE - IST on TK. OS flies MLE to VIE but leaves a long overnight layover. Can I even get SQ to Singapore? Are these the best options for using miles for business class or first class to get back to Austin?
Originally, I was going to use United miles to get to Delhi, pay for the rest but then us AA miles to fly MLE- AUH (2 nights) - DFW - AUS. This would have cost 115 K miles for first class plus the 80K united miles going. Thoughts about this routing?
Thanks
ND Traveler
I am putting together a trip for next January and wanted some help and ideas.
Leg 1 (miles/stopover)
AUS-IAH-YYZ-DEL on Air Canada 787 business class, might try AUS-EWR-DEL
Stop in Delhi for 3 nights
Leg 2 (miles/stopover)
Del - MAA Air India or Jet airways first class
Stop in MAA for 10 nights or so
Leg 3 paid (it appears to be an all economy flight hence I thought I would pay for this segment)
MAA - MLE Air India
Stay in MLE for 4 nights or so
Leg 4 miles (miles/open jaw)
MLE- XXX-XXX-Aus (might need another transfer city)
1) Is this a valid routing and what would the cost in miles be?
2) Apparently Lufthansa is going to start MLE - FRA. I believe I could also fly MLE - IST on TK. OS flies MLE to VIE but leaves a long overnight layover. Can I even get SQ to Singapore? Are these the best options for using miles for business class or first class to get back to Austin?
Originally, I was going to use United miles to get to Delhi, pay for the rest but then us AA miles to fly MLE- AUH (2 nights) - DFW - AUS. This would have cost 115 K miles for first class plus the 80K united miles going. Thoughts about this routing?
Thanks
ND Traveler
Jan 13, 2015, 2:17 pm
#32
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 446
We are actually going to stay at a resort for 3-5 nights. I haven't decided which one yet.
Jan 13, 2015, 2:26 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,694
SQ availability MLE-SIN is usually pretty easy since they have so much lift.
Jan 13, 2015, 2:38 pm
#34
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,116
I can never get any award for SQ to show up SIN-NYC any suggestions to seeing that routing?
Jan 13, 2015, 3:52 pm
#35
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
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Posts: 23,314
Jan 13, 2015, 4:07 pm
#36
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 446
from what I read in another thread, the brand new all aisle access AC 787 is preferred over the UA 777 2x2x2
I looked at that but it leaves a 7.5 hour (530 AM to 120 PM) layover in Istanbul which I don't think is enough time to get out and see the city.
I looked at that but it leaves a 7.5 hour (530 AM to 120 PM) layover in Istanbul which I don't think is enough time to get out and see the city.
Jan 13, 2015, 4:34 pm
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,694
Jan 13, 2015, 8:58 pm
#38
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 54
Hi all,
I'm planning something for this year. Is the following itinerary valid?
1. DFW-LAX-ICN (< 24 hour)
2. GMP-HND (Stopover)
3. NRT-FRA-LHR (Destination)
4. ZRH-EWR-DFW (Open Jaw)
I have three concerns regarding that.
1. I will be crossing two oceans (I haven't seen too many example of people doing that, but it's possible according to the wiki).
2. I'm using a different airports in Seoul and Tokyo. Will that count against my open jaw? I could do the second leg as ICN-NRT if necessary. But I prefer the closer airports to the cities.
3. If I understand the max connection each way correctly, I'm allowed 4 connections, which means 5 segments?
Thanks
I'm planning something for this year. Is the following itinerary valid?
1. DFW-LAX-ICN (< 24 hour)
2. GMP-HND (Stopover)
3. NRT-FRA-LHR (Destination)
4. ZRH-EWR-DFW (Open Jaw)
I have three concerns regarding that.
1. I will be crossing two oceans (I haven't seen too many example of people doing that, but it's possible according to the wiki).
2. I'm using a different airports in Seoul and Tokyo. Will that count against my open jaw? I could do the second leg as ICN-NRT if necessary. But I prefer the closer airports to the cities.
3. If I understand the max connection each way correctly, I'm allowed 4 connections, which means 5 segments?
Thanks
Jan 13, 2015, 9:19 pm
#39
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,478
Hi all,
I'm planning something for this year. Is the following itinerary valid?
1. DFW-LAX-ICN (< 24 hour)
2. GMP-HND (Stopover)
3. NRT-FRA-LHR (Destination)
4. ZRH-EWR-DFW (Open Jaw)
I have three concerns regarding that.
1. I will be crossing two oceans (I haven't seen too many example of people doing that, but it's possible according to the wiki).
2. I'm using a different airports in Seoul and Tokyo. Will that count against my open jaw? I could do the second leg as ICN-NRT if necessary. But I prefer the closer airports to the cities.
3. If I understand the max connection each way correctly, I'm allowed 4 connections, which means 5 segments?
I'm planning something for this year. Is the following itinerary valid?
1. DFW-LAX-ICN (< 24 hour)
2. GMP-HND (Stopover)
3. NRT-FRA-LHR (Destination)
4. ZRH-EWR-DFW (Open Jaw)
I have three concerns regarding that.
1. I will be crossing two oceans (I haven't seen too many example of people doing that, but it's possible according to the wiki).
2. I'm using a different airports in Seoul and Tokyo. Will that count against my open jaw? I could do the second leg as ICN-NRT if necessary. But I prefer the closer airports to the cities.
3. If I understand the max connection each way correctly, I'm allowed 4 connections, which means 5 segments?
2. 8 segments max
3. You may have a problem with GMP/ICN creating an OJ and thus a stopover, I don't think they're treated as co-terminals (could be wrong here, but this was my conclusion when I last looked into it)
Jan 13, 2015, 9:57 pm
#41
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 54
Thanks Kacee.
I've to re-route my trip then to take full advantage of the Europe/Japan combo.
I've to re-route my trip then to take full advantage of the Europe/Japan combo.
Jan 13, 2015, 11:25 pm
#42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 54
DFW-LAX-ICN (< 24 hour)
ICN-NRT (stopover)
NRT-FRA-LHR (Destination)
ZRH-NRT-ORD-DFW (open jaw)
Jan 14, 2015, 12:35 am
#43
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,478
Jan 14, 2015, 6:26 am
#44
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 446
Jan 14, 2015, 8:12 am
#45
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,478
That doesn't mean it can't be booked. However, you reference a "dummy booking." Do you actually have a ticket? Sometimes it doesn't error out until the very end of the booking process.