Jan 19, 2015, 1:50 am
Last edit by: Kacee
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Questions on Open Jaw/Stopover and Award Routings for United UA/*A Partners [2015]
Jan 12, 2015, 9:48 pm
#16
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jersey
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Lifetime PLT
Posts: 1,154
Ok so this is the routing i am looking at. Is this valid? or do i need to reduce nrt to under 24 hours for this to work? Any suggestions? Maybe subbing in a partner flight somewhere in here?
Thanks.
ewr-sfo-ogg (staying ~3 days)
ogg-hnl-nrt (staying ~2 days)
nrt-bkk (staying ~5 days)
bkk-hkg (layover <24 hours)
hkg-ewr
Thanks.
ewr-sfo-ogg (staying ~3 days)
ogg-hnl-nrt (staying ~2 days)
nrt-bkk (staying ~5 days)
bkk-hkg (layover <24 hours)
hkg-ewr
Jan 12, 2015, 10:27 pm
#17
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
Jan 13, 2015, 12:56 am
#18
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: United 1K, HH Diamond, CBP Global Entry
Posts: 732
Hi WineCountry, can you tell me if one of the following routings is valid? // denotes stopover over 24 hours. i cant do it online somehow, and all the phone agents give diff excuses why it wont work (diff made up reasons every time).
Europe-Boston//Boston-Newark//Newark-OGG
Europe-Boston//Boston-OGG//OGG-IAD
Europe-Boston//Boston-OGG//OGG-HNL (intra island on HA)
thanks
E
Europe-Boston//Boston-Newark//Newark-OGG
Europe-Boston//Boston-OGG//OGG-IAD
Europe-Boston//Boston-OGG//OGG-HNL (intra island on HA)
thanks
E
Jan 13, 2015, 1:22 am
#19
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
So is this intended to be a RT with an OJ on the origin?? The OJ spanning regions it is likely creating issues. The have been some issues and the internal rules may have a tighten up. Such itins are very difficult to figure what's the stop, what's the destination, .... Ask the agents to call the award / rate desk to better answer the issue.
Jan 13, 2015, 1:23 am
#20
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,478
// denotes stopover over 24 hours. i cant do it online somehow, and all the phone agents give diff excuses why it wont work (diff made up reasons every time).
Europe-Boston//Boston-Newark//Newark-OGG
Europe-Boston//Boston-OGG//OGG-IAD
Europe-Boston//Boston-OGG//OGG-HNL (intra island on HA)
Europe-Boston//Boston-Newark//Newark-OGG
Europe-Boston//Boston-OGG//OGG-IAD
Europe-Boston//Boston-OGG//OGG-HNL (intra island on HA)
Jan 13, 2015, 6:28 am
#21
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 35
Help with Booking a Complex Stopover with Open Jaw
I am newish to booking with United. I am trying to book an RT all using saver economy. I have checked each leg individually and know there is availability. When I try to enter multi-segment I get errors...Is there any way to book this on my own or do I have to blow the $50 on the 2 RT tickets?
Proposed Itinerary ORD-stopover in PRG-GDN, WAW-ORD:
ORD-PRG (Routes as ORD-WAW, then WAW-PRG) (Prague is my stopover)
I will take train from PRG-WAW
Flight from WAW to GDN (destination?)
Return flight GDN to ORD (Routes as GDN-WAW, then WAW-ORD)
My question is, is this a legit RT option? If so, how can I book without paying fee?
I was able to book multi segmented until the return trip, when it won't show any flights going through WAW. As I understand it "backtracking" like this is allowed as long as the OJ/SO rules aren't broken, so I am not sure why it won't let me select the GDN-WAW-ORD return leg.
Also, do people have success having the booking fees waived ever if they have to call it in?
Thanks in advance!
Proposed Itinerary ORD-stopover in PRG-GDN, WAW-ORD:
ORD-PRG (Routes as ORD-WAW, then WAW-PRG) (Prague is my stopover)
I will take train from PRG-WAW
Flight from WAW to GDN (destination?)
Return flight GDN to ORD (Routes as GDN-WAW, then WAW-ORD)
My question is, is this a legit RT option? If so, how can I book without paying fee?
I was able to book multi segmented until the return trip, when it won't show any flights going through WAW. As I understand it "backtracking" like this is allowed as long as the OJ/SO rules aren't broken, so I am not sure why it won't let me select the GDN-WAW-ORD return leg.
Also, do people have success having the booking fees waived ever if they have to call it in?
Thanks in advance!
Jan 13, 2015, 7:31 am
#22
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1k, SPG Plat 100
Posts: 619
You'll need to call in to book it. Generally for complex itins, they'll wave the phone fee since it can't be booked online. If they insist, escalate.
Jan 13, 2015, 7:45 am
#23
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MCO
Programs: SPG Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 139
I am newish to booking with United. I am trying to book an RT all using saver economy. I have checked each leg individually and know there is availability. When I try to enter multi-segment I get errors...Is there any way to book this on my own or do I have to blow the $50 on the 2 RT tickets?
Proposed Itinerary ORD-stopover in PRG-GDN, WAW-ORD:
ORD-PRG (Routes as ORD-WAW, then WAW-PRG) (Prague is my stopover)
I will take train from PRG-WAW
Flight from WAW to GDN (destination?)
Return flight GDN to ORD (Routes as GDN-WAW, then WAW-ORD)
My question is, is this a legit RT option? If so, how can I book without paying fee?
I was able to book multi segmented until the return trip, when it won't show any flights going through WAW. As I understand it "backtracking" like this is allowed as long as the OJ/SO rules aren't broken, so I am not sure why it won't let me select the GDN-WAW-ORD return leg.
Also, do people have success having the booking fees waived ever if they have to call it in?
Thanks in advance!
Proposed Itinerary ORD-stopover in PRG-GDN, WAW-ORD:
ORD-PRG (Routes as ORD-WAW, then WAW-PRG) (Prague is my stopover)
I will take train from PRG-WAW
Flight from WAW to GDN (destination?)
Return flight GDN to ORD (Routes as GDN-WAW, then WAW-ORD)
My question is, is this a legit RT option? If so, how can I book without paying fee?
I was able to book multi segmented until the return trip, when it won't show any flights going through WAW. As I understand it "backtracking" like this is allowed as long as the OJ/SO rules aren't broken, so I am not sure why it won't let me select the GDN-WAW-ORD return leg.
Also, do people have success having the booking fees waived ever if they have to call it in?
Thanks in advance!
You will have to call it in. $50.00 is really not a big deal compared to what you are saving through booking the ticket on miles.
I am not sure if your proposed routing is valid with all of the backtracking. Why not end your outbound in Prague and open jaw your return from GDN, then pay for the train/commuter flights from PRG to WAW and WAW to GDN. This would make the itinerary a valid routing and preserve your stopover for a free one way from ORD. Random dates are showing $250-$300 total for the PRG - WAW - GDN flights.
Outbound: ORD-WAW-PRG (destination)
- plane (PRG - WAW)
- plane (WAW - GDN)
Return: GDN-WAW-ORD (stopover)
Free One Way: ORD - ???
Jan 13, 2015, 7:49 am
#24
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 114
Is there a reason for such a routing?
You can book ORD-FRA-PRG (open jaw) WAW-GDN (stopover)-MUC-ORD.
Random dates: 2/17, 4/24, 5/12 but availability is good in other dates (at least in economy).
Online booking engine does not allow many legal routing (and sometimes allow illegal) so you may have more luck by calling in. For instance, on united.com you will not book an open jaw at the stopover point (which may be the reason of your error resulting in some backtracking from a stopover in GDN).
To avoid the phone booking fee, you may book something like above online and call within 24 hours to change (you may need to hung up and try a few agents). It is usually better calling with a change than to create an itinerary from scratch as the agents are less likely to make up some bogus rules why the routing is impossible. Changes within 24 hours are supposed to be free and usually agents do not make fuss about it. If you are elite then all changes in routing are free (up to 21 days before) but after 24 hours you may be stuck with an inconvenient routing if the change is impossible.
By the way, GDN-WAW flights are cheap and the train is even cheaper if you have to remove the segment.
You can book ORD-FRA-PRG (open jaw) WAW-GDN (stopover)-MUC-ORD.
Random dates: 2/17, 4/24, 5/12 but availability is good in other dates (at least in economy).
Online booking engine does not allow many legal routing (and sometimes allow illegal) so you may have more luck by calling in. For instance, on united.com you will not book an open jaw at the stopover point (which may be the reason of your error resulting in some backtracking from a stopover in GDN).
To avoid the phone booking fee, you may book something like above online and call within 24 hours to change (you may need to hung up and try a few agents). It is usually better calling with a change than to create an itinerary from scratch as the agents are less likely to make up some bogus rules why the routing is impossible. Changes within 24 hours are supposed to be free and usually agents do not make fuss about it. If you are elite then all changes in routing are free (up to 21 days before) but after 24 hours you may be stuck with an inconvenient routing if the change is impossible.
By the way, GDN-WAW flights are cheap and the train is even cheaper if you have to remove the segment.
Jan 13, 2015, 9:16 am
#25
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 35
Is there a reason for such a routing?
You can book ORD-FRA-PRG (open jaw) WAW-GDN (stopover)-MUC-ORD.
Random dates: 2/17, 4/24, 5/12 but availability is good in other dates (at least in economy).
Online booking engine does not allow many legal routing (and sometimes allow illegal) so you may have more luck by calling in. For instance, on united.com you will not book an open jaw at the stopover point (which may be the reason of your error resulting in some backtracking from a stopover in GDN).
To avoid the phone booking fee, you may book something like above online and call within 24 hours to change (you may need to hung up and try a few agents). It is usually better calling with a change than to create an itinerary from scratch as the agents are less likely to make up some bogus rules why the routing is impossible. Changes within 24 hours are supposed to be free and usually agents do not make fuss about it. If you are elite then all changes in routing are free (up to 21 days before) but after 24 hours you may be stuck with an inconvenient routing if the change is impossible.
By the way, GDN-WAW flights are cheap and the train is even cheaper if you have to remove the segment.
You can book ORD-FRA-PRG (open jaw) WAW-GDN (stopover)-MUC-ORD.
Random dates: 2/17, 4/24, 5/12 but availability is good in other dates (at least in economy).
Online booking engine does not allow many legal routing (and sometimes allow illegal) so you may have more luck by calling in. For instance, on united.com you will not book an open jaw at the stopover point (which may be the reason of your error resulting in some backtracking from a stopover in GDN).
To avoid the phone booking fee, you may book something like above online and call within 24 hours to change (you may need to hung up and try a few agents). It is usually better calling with a change than to create an itinerary from scratch as the agents are less likely to make up some bogus rules why the routing is impossible. Changes within 24 hours are supposed to be free and usually agents do not make fuss about it. If you are elite then all changes in routing are free (up to 21 days before) but after 24 hours you may be stuck with an inconvenient routing if the change is impossible.
By the way, GDN-WAW flights are cheap and the train is even cheaper if you have to remove the segment.
Jan 13, 2015, 9:50 am
#26
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 446
Award flight to India/Maldives suggestions
All,
I am putting together a trip for next January and wanted some help and ideas.
Leg 1 (miles/stopover)
AUS-IAH-YYZ-DEL on Air Canada 787 business class, might try AUS-EWR-DEL
Stop in Delhi for 3 nights
Leg 2 (miles/stopover)
Del - MAA Air India or Jet airways first class
Stop in MAA for 10 nights or so
Leg 3 paid (it appears to be an all economy flight hence I thought I would pay for this segment)
MAA - MLE Air India
Stay in MLE for 4 nights or so
Leg 4 miles (miles/open jaw)
MLE- XXX-XXX-Aus (might need another transfer city)
1) Is this a valid routing and what would the cost in miles be?
2) Apparently Lufthansa is going to start MLE - FRA. I believe I could also fly MLE - IST on TK. OS flies MLE to VIE but leaves a long overnight layover. Can I even get SQ to Singapore? Are these the best options for using miles for business class or first class to get back to Austin?
Originally, I was going to use United miles to get to Delhi, pay for the rest but then us AA miles to fly MLE- AUH (2 nights) - DFW - AUS. This would have cost 115 K miles for first class plus the 80K united miles going. Thoughts about this routing?
Thanks
ND Traveler
I am putting together a trip for next January and wanted some help and ideas.
Leg 1 (miles/stopover)
AUS-IAH-YYZ-DEL on Air Canada 787 business class, might try AUS-EWR-DEL
Stop in Delhi for 3 nights
Leg 2 (miles/stopover)
Del - MAA Air India or Jet airways first class
Stop in MAA for 10 nights or so
Leg 3 paid (it appears to be an all economy flight hence I thought I would pay for this segment)
MAA - MLE Air India
Stay in MLE for 4 nights or so
Leg 4 miles (miles/open jaw)
MLE- XXX-XXX-Aus (might need another transfer city)
1) Is this a valid routing and what would the cost in miles be?
2) Apparently Lufthansa is going to start MLE - FRA. I believe I could also fly MLE - IST on TK. OS flies MLE to VIE but leaves a long overnight layover. Can I even get SQ to Singapore? Are these the best options for using miles for business class or first class to get back to Austin?
Originally, I was going to use United miles to get to Delhi, pay for the rest but then us AA miles to fly MLE- AUH (2 nights) - DFW - AUS. This would have cost 115 K miles for first class plus the 80K united miles going. Thoughts about this routing?
Thanks
ND Traveler
Jan 13, 2015, 11:51 am
#27
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: MDT
Programs: UA 1MM
Posts: 281
Cant be valid with more than 1 stopover. Your UA/AA combo might work (or some other combination of one way trips, but I am pretty sure that the 1 stopover/round trip rule is hard and fast
Jan 13, 2015, 12:00 pm
#28
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 114
If you have so much time before the departure, you can also wait and it's very likely something more convenient opens up (but no guarantees). If you had status, you could book anything now and change later without fees and this option would be the best since at the time a more convenient return opens up, the availability for the inbound leg might be gone.
Try also to book ORD-PRG(stopover)-WAW(open jaw) GDN-ORD since WAW-GDN is cheaper and faster to do on your own (plane ticket is $40+ taxes that you'll have to pay on award anyway and the train is about $40 last minute or about $20-30 bought well in advance), although from PRG to WAW you can take an overnight sleeper train.
Jan 13, 2015, 1:08 pm
#29
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, PC Plat, SPG Platinum, Marriott Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 159
If you pay for Leg 3, then Leg 1, 2 and 4 should be a valid roundtrip tricket.
Leg 1: AUS -DEL (stopover) -> Air Canada
Leg 2: DEL - MAA (Destination) -> Air India
Leg 3: MLE - AUS (Return/Open jaw) -> Another *A carrier
I believe for Business Class it's 160K miles roundtrip because this is with partner airlines. You may not be able to travel in SQ since that will be going over Pacific.
Either you have to do both legs over pacific or both legs over Atlantic I believe.
Leg 1: AUS -DEL (stopover) -> Air Canada
Leg 2: DEL - MAA (Destination) -> Air India
Leg 3: MLE - AUS (Return/Open jaw) -> Another *A carrier
I believe for Business Class it's 160K miles roundtrip because this is with partner airlines. You may not be able to travel in SQ since that will be going over Pacific.
Either you have to do both legs over pacific or both legs over Atlantic I believe.
Jan 13, 2015, 1:51 pm
#30
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: TX
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, AA Plat Pro
Posts: 446
I called United and this is a valid routing for 160 K miles and about $150 in taxes.
I can fly Singapore for MLE - SIN and on to NRT if available.
I am really excited as this saves me a lot of miles and I get to fly AC, Singapore, ANA and Jet Airways business class.
I can fly Singapore for MLE - SIN and on to NRT if available.
I am really excited as this saves me a lot of miles and I get to fly AC, Singapore, ANA and Jet Airways business class.