Voluntary Downgrade Etiquette
Jul 9, 2014, 1:45 pm
#62
Join Date: Dec 2011
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That's certainly one option and your prerogative as an on-board upgrade recipient. But how would that work in practice if the interaction flowed like this in the first place?
GA: Here's your new boarding pass for a better seat.
Upgrader: Oh, thanks, but I'd rather stay put with my companion.
GA: No problem, just keep your original boarding pass.
*GA exits plane, processes next upgrade*
GA: Here's your new boarding pass for a better seat.
Upgrader: Oh, thanks, but I'd rather stay put with my companion.
GA: No problem, just keep your original boarding pass.
*GA exits plane, processes next upgrade*
Jul 9, 2014, 2:03 pm
#63
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Well, if that's the case, I can only imagine your chagrin and embarrassment when the individual initiating the swap reveals to all on board that the person sitting next to his wife is indeed his long lost (perhaps adopted) brother or sister and therefore fully entitled to the FC seat. :-:
Jul 9, 2014, 2:07 pm
#64
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Well, if that's the case, I can only imagine your chagrin and embarrassment when the individual initiating the swap reveals to all on board that the person sitting next to his wife is indeed his long lost (perhaps adopted) brother or sister and therefore fully entitled to the FC seat. :-:
Jul 9, 2014, 2:58 pm
#65
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While I don't necessarily agree with Bob (and yes I'd keep the F seat if a fuss was made so he wouldn't be getting it 
), I also agree that the snarkiness towards him for having a different opinion really isn't necessary.
Cheers.
), I also agree that the snarkiness towards him for having a different opinion really isn't necessary.Cheers.
Jul 9, 2014, 3:24 pm
#66
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Boca, I'll respectfully beg to differ with you for the many reasons, including some already stated here, such as three people are better off with informal swaps, no one benefits by objecting (since the person originally planning to move out of F will keep his/her seat rather than pleasing the person objecting), it's easier for the FAs and GAs, it's fine for the vast majority of FAs, objecting creates a disturbance and/or can slow boarding and departure, etc.
More generally, I'd argue that under many circumstances a bit of informal leeway is better than being a stickler for rules - or does your travel agent business absolutely never bend a bit for the benefit of your customers? (And if that's the case, I'm grateful for the TA I occasionally use.
)
But even given all that, I'm not sure I grasp your reasoning below...
And then the WIFE sat in F.
So the HUSBAND indeed traded with the WIFE.
How can you reconcile that rules must be followed when trading seats with a stranger versus trading seats with a wife? Why were you not just as outraged -- after all that WIFE *still* stole your UG?
I do get the fact that people should just not UG when they know they really want to sit in Y. But what if they don't know until doors close?
By your reasoning, so what if the FA is fine with your trade? If the seats belong to the airline, what difference does it make if you are trading seats with your wife or some total stranger? Shouldn't the person next in line for that F seat get it, rather than your spouse, colleague, friend, casual acquaintance, person you met in line, whatever?
Similarly, trading by folks who know each other "is approved" by whom? The Flyertalk consensus? But most FTers approve swapping by strangers under the scenario sketched by the OP. So if that's your reasoning - i.e., it "has often been discussed here [at FT?] and is approved [by FT?]" - then the OP's scenario should be fine by you. Or if it's been approved by most FAs, it should also be fine.
Perhaps there is some formal (UA? FAA? DHS?) rule that says that people who know each other can swap seats while those who don't know each other can't. If so, please share it with us. I'd still strongly disagree with it and welcome the informal practices most passengers and FAs approve of. But I'd at least see some consistency in your position.
More generally, I'd argue that under many circumstances a bit of informal leeway is better than being a stickler for rules - or does your travel agent business absolutely never bend a bit for the benefit of your customers? (And if that's the case, I'm grateful for the TA I occasionally use.
)But even given all that, I'm not sure I grasp your reasoning below...
And then the WIFE sat in F.
So the HUSBAND indeed traded with the WIFE.
How can you reconcile that rules must be followed when trading seats with a stranger versus trading seats with a wife? Why were you not just as outraged -- after all that WIFE *still* stole your UG?
I do get the fact that people should just not UG when they know they really want to sit in Y. But what if they don't know until doors close?
Similarly, trading by folks who know each other "is approved" by whom? The Flyertalk consensus? But most FTers approve swapping by strangers under the scenario sketched by the OP. So if that's your reasoning - i.e., it "has often been discussed here [at FT?] and is approved [by FT?]" - then the OP's scenario should be fine by you. Or if it's been approved by most FAs, it should also be fine.
Perhaps there is some formal (UA? FAA? DHS?) rule that says that people who know each other can swap seats while those who don't know each other can't. If so, please share it with us. I'd still strongly disagree with it and welcome the informal practices most passengers and FAs approve of. But I'd at least see some consistency in your position.
Jul 9, 2014, 4:09 pm
#67
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But have an opinion that's counter to the angry mob/ex-employees on here, and you get called a sorts of euphemisms which are apparently tolerated and encouraged. It's apparently also OK to call any employee at United a derogatory name, just as long as it isn't someone posting on this site.
Jul 9, 2014, 6:10 pm
#68
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What a load of rubbish! It's so patently funny that this coming from a talk Board 'President' continues to solidify the fact that negative opinions are the only form of discourse tolerated here. So when one histrionic negative posters of takes a bit of heat from the jury, he's gently defended and stroked from the Board. Poor Boca.
But have an opinion that's counter to the angry mob/ex-employees on here, and you get called a sorts of euphemisms which are apparently tolerated and encouraged. It's apparently also OK to call any employee at United a derogatory name, just as long as it isn't someone posting on this site.
But have an opinion that's counter to the angry mob/ex-employees on here, and you get called a sorts of euphemisms which are apparently tolerated and encouraged. It's apparently also OK to call any employee at United a derogatory name, just as long as it isn't someone posting on this site.
Jul 9, 2014, 10:26 pm
#69
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Midwest
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This is an interesting discussion.
Who hasn't been in a spot, where they want to swap seats for some reason, but United just can't get it done for them in advance? Your only currency at that point is the "better" seat of the two of you, and a seat up front is valuable coin indeed.
The reason you are in this situation usually, is because United couldn't or wouldn't put you together. If you see it coming, I am with the camp that says the etiquette should be, that you make a modest effort to sort it out before you are on the plane - and most folks would prefer to do it that way. But the practical reality is, this can be a high energy, high time consumption task and may not even be possible outside the plane. And in that reality, as opposed to wish, then I also think that there is nothing wrong with a little self help.
Mr. or Ms. #1 on the waitlist can make a stink but if they prevail, they are still going to be riding in coach. And me and my new best friend will be behind them while Mrs. BlackMountain is in First, that is the practical outcome, and practical wins out over theoretical in this scenario.
Who hasn't been in a spot, where they want to swap seats for some reason, but United just can't get it done for them in advance? Your only currency at that point is the "better" seat of the two of you, and a seat up front is valuable coin indeed.
The reason you are in this situation usually, is because United couldn't or wouldn't put you together. If you see it coming, I am with the camp that says the etiquette should be, that you make a modest effort to sort it out before you are on the plane - and most folks would prefer to do it that way. But the practical reality is, this can be a high energy, high time consumption task and may not even be possible outside the plane. And in that reality, as opposed to wish, then I also think that there is nothing wrong with a little self help.
Mr. or Ms. #1 on the waitlist can make a stink but if they prevail, they are still going to be riding in coach. And me and my new best friend will be behind them while Mrs. BlackMountain is in First, that is the practical outcome, and practical wins out over theoretical in this scenario.
Jul 9, 2014, 10:34 pm
#70
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What a thread! And it is such a great demonstration that UA really isn't my airline anymore - I had a single CPU clear since their introduction which then went the way of the toilet due to an equipment swap ...
So the discussion while certainly entertaining feels a lot like a "what to do with a captured pink unicorn"?
I do however really not understand why - in the minority opinion - the wife seating upfront is acceptable? She is certainly not there as per UA rules as otherwise the ug would have gone to her and if we just accept that bending a rules a bit is ok, then most people would include giving the seat they conquered to whomever they please. I do not see how the distinction could possibly be drawn and defended.
That must have been a pretty wife ... and a husband too eager to sit in F 
....
So the discussion while certainly entertaining feels a lot like a "what to do with a captured pink unicorn"?
I do however really not understand why - in the minority opinion - the wife seating upfront is acceptable? She is certainly not there as per UA rules as otherwise the ug would have gone to her and if we just accept that bending a rules a bit is ok, then most people would include giving the seat they conquered to whomever they please. I do not see how the distinction could possibly be drawn and defended.
....
Jul 9, 2014, 10:47 pm
#71
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silicon wasteland
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Posts: 1,381
Pax 1 and 2 are in the wrong for not establishing in advance that they'd like to sit together. Either pax 2 finds miles/instrument to use in advance, or pax 1 calls to decline the upgrade as soon as it clears. No excuse to make pax 3 look like a jerk for being factually, objectively entitled to 2A in that situation.
Everyone has individual responsibility to consider their priorities beforehand. And UA still bears the blame for causing these situations to exist.
Everyone has individual responsibility to consider their priorities beforehand. And UA still bears the blame for causing these situations to exist.
Do you advocate *always* recinding an UG supported with instruments/miles if there is even the possibility of *both* not clearing?
And at what point will it be clear that they wont?
Or is all this stuff about CPU, and not instrument-supported UGs? I think the consensus that if Pax1 PAID for the F seat, they are free to trade as they see fit. Or are they?
Dec 23, 2015, 12:07 pm
#72
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I had this problem yesterday. The DCA-SFO nonstop is usually among the hardest upgrades in the system--I hadn't come close in 11 prior flights--but with me on a Q fare and Tuesday's flight somehow not as packed as ever, my CPU cleared in the last few hours before departure. I didn't even realize that had happened until I checked its status in the DCA UC as boarding had started.
Inconveniently enough, my wife and our five-year-old were traveling with me on mileage tickets (so I couldn't decline the upgrade beforehand like I can when we're on the same PNR). And I had so little faith in my upgrade clearing that I hadn't discussed with them how we might handle this situation. Since I'd already had an okay breakfast, I decided I'd make somebody else's day by letting the next person on the list get the upgrade.
I asked one of the UC agents if she could put me back in my original seat; she called the gate and made the swap, where they had a paper boarding pass waiting for me. So it all worked out, not least since our E+ seats were not so close to F that I had to hear the clink of every glass up front. (I was still starving by the end of the flight, and I really, really hope the travel gods appreciate my sacrifice. Would you all have done the same thing in this scenario?)
Inconveniently enough, my wife and our five-year-old were traveling with me on mileage tickets (so I couldn't decline the upgrade beforehand like I can when we're on the same PNR). And I had so little faith in my upgrade clearing that I hadn't discussed with them how we might handle this situation. Since I'd already had an okay breakfast, I decided I'd make somebody else's day by letting the next person on the list get the upgrade.
I asked one of the UC agents if she could put me back in my original seat; she called the gate and made the swap, where they had a paper boarding pass waiting for me. So it all worked out, not least since our E+ seats were not so close to F that I had to hear the clink of every glass up front. (I was still starving by the end of the flight, and I really, really hope the travel gods appreciate my sacrifice. Would you all have done the same thing in this scenario?)
Last edited by DCA writer; Dec 23, 2015 at 6:19 pm
Dec 23, 2015, 12:15 pm
#73
Join Date: Apr 2009
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I had this problem yesterday. The DCA-SFO nonstop is usually among the hardest upgrades in the system--I hadn't come close in 11 prior flights--but with me on a Q fare and Tuesday's flight somehow not as packed as ever, my CPU cleared in the last few hours before departure. I didn't even realize that had happened until I checked its status in the DCA UC as boarding had started.
Inconveniently enough, my wife and our five-year-old were traveling with me on mileage tickets (so I couldn't decline the upgrade beforehand like I can when we're on the same PNR). And I had so little faith in my upgrade clearing that I hadn't discussed with them how we might handle this situation. Since I'd already had an okay breakfast, I decided I'd make somebody else's day by letting the next person on the list get the upgrade.
I asked one of the UC agents if she could put me back in my original seat; she called the gate and made the swap, where they had a paper boarding pass waiting for me. So it all worked out, not least since our E+ seats were not so close to F that I had to hear the clink of every glass up front. (I still still starving by the end of the flight, and I really, really hope the travel gods appreciate my sacrifice. Would you all have done the same thing in this scenario?)
Inconveniently enough, my wife and our five-year-old were traveling with me on mileage tickets (so I couldn't decline the upgrade beforehand like I can when we're on the same PNR). And I had so little faith in my upgrade clearing that I hadn't discussed with them how we might handle this situation. Since I'd already had an okay breakfast, I decided I'd make somebody else's day by letting the next person on the list get the upgrade.
I asked one of the UC agents if she could put me back in my original seat; she called the gate and made the swap, where they had a paper boarding pass waiting for me. So it all worked out, not least since our E+ seats were not so close to F that I had to hear the clink of every glass up front. (I still still starving by the end of the flight, and I really, really hope the travel gods appreciate my sacrifice. Would you all have done the same thing in this scenario?)
Seemed like the right thing to do otherwise ^^
Dec 23, 2015, 12:18 pm
#74
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ORD
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 659
I had this problem yesterday. The DCA-SFO nonstop is usually among the hardest upgrades in the system--I hadn't come close in 11 prior flights--but with me on a Q fare and Tuesday's flight somehow not as packed as ever, my CPU cleared in the last few hours before departure. I didn't even realize that had happened until I checked its status in the DCA UC as boarding had started.
Inconveniently enough, my wife and our five-year-old were traveling with me on mileage tickets (so I couldn't decline the upgrade beforehand like I can when we're on the same PNR). And I had so little faith in my upgrade clearing that I hadn't discussed with them how we might handle this situation. Since I'd already had an okay breakfast, I decided I'd make somebody else's day by letting the next person on the list get the upgrade.
I asked one of the UC agents if she could put me back in my original seat; she called the gate and made the swap, where they had a paper boarding pass waiting for me. So it all worked out, not least since our E+ seats were not so close to F that I had to hear the clink of every glass up front. (I still still starving by the end of the flight, and I really, really hope the travel gods appreciate my sacrifice. Would you all have done the same thing in this scenario?)
Inconveniently enough, my wife and our five-year-old were traveling with me on mileage tickets (so I couldn't decline the upgrade beforehand like I can when we're on the same PNR). And I had so little faith in my upgrade clearing that I hadn't discussed with them how we might handle this situation. Since I'd already had an okay breakfast, I decided I'd make somebody else's day by letting the next person on the list get the upgrade.
I asked one of the UC agents if she could put me back in my original seat; she called the gate and made the swap, where they had a paper boarding pass waiting for me. So it all worked out, not least since our E+ seats were not so close to F that I had to hear the clink of every glass up front. (I still still starving by the end of the flight, and I really, really hope the travel gods appreciate my sacrifice. Would you all have done the same thing in this scenario?)