I wasn't saying UA's product or the 767 was bad, I meant they are replacing the 767's (not internationally since they have other aircraft like the 787/A350 on order for that) but domestically with substandard aircraft.

The sad thing is UA stock is still up 25% YTD and 55% over the past year. While DL, AA, and WN are up more, it's going to take a rather sharp dive in those numbers for investors to push him out.

By comparison the S&P is up 5% YTD and 20% over the past year - so he's still beating the S&P by a healthy margin and really that's all that matters in the end unfortunately

Huh? What domestic 767s?

That's the issue, lol. AA and DL fly 767's domestically (not counting Hawaii). They also fly plenty of 757's domestically, something UA is getting rid of (minus the transcon JFK-LAX flights).

agreed. if you love WN fly them.

i rarely fly WN. i like what i get from UA even though some of their decisions aren't the brightest.

and no way WN would codeshare. no reason for them to do that.

Both AA and DL are parking 757s and the rate of the retirements will start accelerating next year. They're replacing with slightly smaller aircraft - 737-900ERs and/or A321s, just like United.

WN is too good for UA.

the codeshare problem could better be solved by partnering with Spirit (there are some striking parallels between the "big front seat" and UA domestic F, after all) and Allegiant. or maybe Frontier, at least DEN would get a lot of their service back that way.

Of course they wouldn't. Would you want to be allied with United at this point?

Seems to me de facto they have already done this in Denver

The idea of getting the United FA's to perform the hack WN routine is pretty funny

The idea is silly for any number of reasons, but largely because UA needs a domestic network to feed its international network, and the WN point-to-point system would have to be entirely recast to favor EWR, ORD, SFO, IAH, and IAD and mesh with international arrival and departure times. The moon will crack in half first. Also note than WN isn't having much trouble filling its own flights and making money without UA as a rock around its neck.

Towards the end Pan Am's "domestic network" had degenerated into a thin web of 1x or 2x/day feeder services timed to connect with its JFK and MIA international services, which meant odd flight times and largely empty aircraft. Imagine flying one RT 727-200 daily AUS-MSY-JFK, and back. Outstations like AUS, ALB, MSP, SLC, and MCI had just one departure, one arrival daily. (I have a January 1990 PA timetable here for reference.)

It was insane. Terrible a/c utilization, terrible yield. The National Airlines network for which they overpaid in the late '70s was utterly gone 10 or 11 years later. They'd spent bank trying to get away from sole reliance on international flights, but ended up mortgaging everything to support a dwindling overseas system.

You can't run a serious network airline without a serious domestic network.

Well, I agree that UA is squandering its domestic advantage -- dumb when you consider what a disadvantage they're already at internationally when it comes to service levels and reliability. This is why I wince when I see moves like drawing down PDX and shifting key domestic lift to the regionals. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Lol. I never understand people and loyalty. Fly whoever you want, loyalty programs are crap.

Sounds like your information are not up to date.

AA and DL flies very few 767 domestically compare to 10 years ago. AA used to fly quite a bit if 767/777 for domestic hub to hub including ORD-MIA, ORD-SFO, ORD-LAX, ORD-DFW, ORD-MIA, DFW-SFO. Now is like down to one 777 LAX-MIA. All AA's transcon 762 just retired and replace with 321. How many DL 763 are flying domestically other than a few transcon ? At one point DL even use 763 for ATL-ORD and the much bigger L1011, but those times are long gone.

Did you realize both AA and DL are both purchasing and delivering all the airbus 319/320/321 currently ? Both of them are slowing retiring 757, once they finished retired all their MD80, 757 will retire much faster than you think.

WN also flies into different airports at some major hubs. It uses HOU not IAH and MDW not ORD. Where UA is domestically weak - a hub like IAD, WN offers no value.

For California, both use LAX and SFO, but they compete directly against each other. I can't see WN interested at all.

A better partnership might be with JetBlue. Would it work though? I could see many some synergies in BOS with JetBlue having domestic feed maybe for some United international flights if United offered them and Star Alliance partner flights. Would there be benefit if JetBlue joined Star Alliance and benefit for both United and JetBlue?

I don't enjoy WN. I don't relish the idea of figuring out how to check in to get a decent seat. I do fly them when UA gets too greedy. A code share would push me away. I would either book direct or use DL.

Of course I don't get to vote .... Just vent ;-).